Orange 3G Launch 2005??????

[99900]

Very interesting reading


I think from this ORange will launch but they will leave the dealers out in the cold until next year. The reason I beleive is to ensure that stocks are ok


Orange delays full 3G launch
Sep 24, 2004

Orange will delay its full consumer 3G drive until 2005, in a further sign that operators are continuing to cool towards the new technology.

The chances of an all-guns-blazing 3G Christmas for retailers have all but disappeared; with Orange deciding on a low-key direct sales drive.

The operator is believed to be targeting 30,000-40,000 sales this side of the New Year, but will be concentrating stock in its own stores in the cities and towns in which it has the best coverage.

‘Given that we are days away from the start of October and there is no constructive channel plan, then maybe they are going to contain it to their own channels,’ said Phones 4u MD Peter Green. ‘Pressures with stock will be easier to contain that way.’

Dealers and distributors are becoming disillusioned with Orange’s lacklustre 3G story, in particular its focus on unexciting data cards.

The MD of one distributor said Orange sources had told him ‘not to expect anything this year’.

Another distributor said: ‘We keep waiting, but 3G is becoming a bit of a “no news” story. No-one has anything to say and no-one other than 3 is sticking their neck out. If I see another announcement about a 3G datacard… well, let’s just say that’s not what the world is waiting for.’

‘There is no information on price plans or advertising, and that means nothing is happening,’ said a third distributor.

He added: ‘3 is flying. Until all the operators are out there and there is real competition, [soft launches] won’t make any difference to us.’

Network problems and handset flaws have put the brakes on Vodafone’s plans for 3G this year. Orange could face even tougher challenges, as it has been rolling out its network more quickly this year and is thought to have had less time for testing.

Orange says it now has 66% population coverage, and has suggested in recent corporate briefings that it could reach 87% in 2005.


© Copyright 2004 Noble House Media Ltd


source
www.***********.co.uk

[A1c]

"Network problems and handset flaws have put the brakes on Vodafone’s plans for 3G this year. "

That'll be why they have 9 handsets ready for a UK launch in November 2004! Orange will have at least 2 handsets available in October but will be doing the distribution themselves (doubtless they will be choosy about who they provide them to).

That article may have been believeable when it was first written but recent announcements have rendered it inaccurate.

[99900]

Yes I think its a load of pants too

But it was worth mentioning because it was only written on Friday.

However I do believe that ORange and Voda may only distrubute through they own stores and favoured dealers

[A1c]

Keeping the distribution 'tight' is probobaly the most sensible way to develop for existing networks. By dong this they can monitor and improve services through close customer contact.

It is very likely that there will be some issues with new services and its prudent of Vodafone and Orange to be cautious and crawl before they make a mad dash at a market in which they already sevice 26 million customers. Better some low key failures than the mass dissatisfaction that has bedevilled 3 UK.

[Gunner]

Yeah, looks like Orange will be staging a 40,000 strong trial ;)

Still, it's the best way to do it, I just wish they'd get a move-on.

[JOBBED]

Well, it would appear to be sensible not to rush it, there is zero interest in 3G .
I have no idea why I would want one, apart from the geek thrill factor, the only single advantage over GSM is 'potential' faster data downloads.

Given that any small mobile device is hardly in a position to utilize this faster stream, full website access is possible but never going to display on a small screen.

Music downloads will be an earner, but expect all kinds of weird formats and DRM measures, which will keep people loading MMC/SD cards with MP3's instead.

Simply everything that 3G 'could' do can be done by GPRS if providers took the time to optimise their content for the medium.

My wapsite could benefit from 3G in that I could put larger video files and more kb's per page, but with such awful browser standards, you'd just end up crashing half of them.
I'm always trying to push the edge with WAP and you try to squeeze in on extra pic and loads of mails.....
'page won't load!!!'
I expect exactly the same problems with all 3G phones.

There isn't a single site on the web or music or video content that couldn't be presented in a convenient and fast manner on a small screen over GPRS with a little work from the owners.

[Ukim]

Can't help feeling we have been here and bought the t-shirt a dozen times. It was said 2weeks ago in the national press (look here for posts about Financial Mail - Mail on Sunday) that 3G would not be properly launched in the UK until mid 2005. I doubted then that the operators would launch their service fully before xmas, particularly as I could not see why the journalist would make up a story like.

Well the betting was wait until 1st October, then it was end of October, next it was xmas and now next year again.

Whilst nothing positive has occurred on the networks front, at least we all had a good threaded discussion about it.

[99900]

I firmly beleive that Voda and Orange will launch this Year. But they will only supply from their own Stores. Voda have already commited to a Launch in November and Orange have stated Late 2004.

So I do believe Orange will launch this side of Christmas but the dealers will not get a sniff at the action. This is why dealers such as The Link, CPW and Phones 4U have had not training on Orange 3G and the network reps have not said anything either

[Ukim]

Jon3G no doubting your belief man - just i am not so assured that all this will happen.

It did strike me though the names Link, CPW etc are the largest suppliers in this country - if what you say happens I can't see these distributors sitting back and saying oh yer 3G is great and spend you money elsewhere, we're glad to recommend them.

But for the likes of CPW, Link and others the operators would not have as many subscribers as they. If the distributors wanted to retaliate that could damage 3G. Under these conditions the operators couldn't have thought their strategy through very well.

[99900]

Originally posted by Ukim
Jon3G no doubting your belief man - just i am not so assured that all this will happen.

It did strike me though the names Link, CPW etc are the largest suppliers in this country - if what you say happens I can't see these distributors sitting back and saying oh yer 3G is great and spend you money elsewhere, we're glad to recommend them.

But for the likes of CPW, Link and others the operators would not have as many subscribers as they. If the distributors wanted to retaliate that could damage 3G. Under these conditions the operators couldn't have thought their strategy through very well.

Yes CPW and Link are the largest in the industry, but what people forget is that Voda and Orange match them more or less store for store. Also a customer will if they want the product so bad then they will go to the supplier who provides that service.


2nd what would be the logic in the Retailers damaging 3G when this will be they 2nd mobile boom and will generate more business for them in the long term.

The logic behind this is

ORange have said they will launch in last part of 2004. Orange have put the handsets in their september magazine and they also have dummy handsets of the z1010 and 8150 in store. The 2 phones also appear on the website. Orange staff in store and CSR's at CS have had the relavant training for 3G and this would only happen if a product is going to launch soon. They would not spend time and money training staff if they were not going to launch this year. IF they didnt staff would have to go through retraining because if you dont put something into practice you forget.

Voda have said that they will launch in November with more handsets coming before Christmas any other information I dont know.

THe logical approach that both operators have taken is that the stock availabilty is short. SO they have said they will do a soft launch before Christmas through there own sales channels. THe likes of CPW and the Link would have no choice because if the stock is not available then its not available.

I am pretty confident this is the approached orange will take and Voda may have some other approach.

However I welcome and logical thoughts with practical sound information supporting it

[Ukim]

************************************************** ************************
Yes CPW and Link are the largest in the industry, but what people forget is that Voda and Orange match them more or less store for store. Also a customer will if they want the product so bad then they will go to the supplier who provides that service.


2nd what would be the logic in the Retailers damaging 3G when this will be they 2nd mobile boom and will generate more business for them in the long term.

The logic behind this is

ORange have said they will launch in last part of 2004. Orange have put the handsets in their september magazine and they also have dummy handsets of the z1010 and 8150 in store. The 2 phones also appear on the website. Orange staff in store and CSR's at CS have had the relavant training for 3G and this would only happen if a product is going to launch soon. They would not spend time and money training staff if they were not going to launch this year. IF they didnt staff would have to go through retraining because if you dont put something into practice you forget.

Voda have said that they will launch in November with more handsets coming before Christmas any other information I dont know.

THe logical approach that both operators have taken is that the stock availabilty is short. SO they have said they will do a soft launch before Christmas through there own sales channels. THe likes of CPW and the Link would have no choice because if the stock is not available then its not available.

I am pretty confident this is the approached orange will take and Voda may have some other approach.

However I welcome and logical thoughts with practical sound information supporting it
************************************************** ****************************

Jon3G - you make some goods, but I had already thought about those points before I wrote my comments.

Customers are shrewder than I think you are giving them credit. They will know if they were to touch the first 40K handsets (maybe, if at all, they turn up) they will pay the highest price going. That's the gamble. I can't say even you want it bad enough to be the *guinea-pig*. But this is just my view - no doubt others may be willing to gamble.

You say 3G is the retailers second boom so they would damage 3G. Well clearly from your first posted article appears what retailers are saying no one wants 3G datacards - that are block up their shelves and are revenue static. It doesn't take a moment for a retailers to say, yes there is 3G stock out there but wait for next year when things settle down and prices are cheaper - we hope to have good deals then. Damage done. So perhaps what i perceive as damage and what you perceive as damage are two different things.

Now you say that Orange staff have had 3G training - perhaps you might care to spend some time scanning the threads at this forum where Orange staff have confirmed the training amounted to showing them a phone and that if they wanted to know more the staff would have to contact the technical department. Hardly the logical position that you assume.

Finally you appear to believe *logic* is used when constructing *marketing hype*...oh dear. There are countless threads at this forum that show marketing statements were equally made to string people along and fool competitors.

Just so you know, I am not flaming you for posting the article.

[Dazwantanuphone]

We all want some correct and up to date info, trouble is the networks arnt providing any!

[Ukim]

Dazwantanuphone - do you mind if I call you Daz, as I a bit of a crappy typist at the best of times?

I agree with you. You see I am one of those you have to actually make a purchase decision for my company. It's me who has to answer if the engineers don't have effective comms they need. The friggin marketing depts sit back sniggering that they have tucked another poor customer.

[Dazwantanuphone]

Hi Ukim, Daz is fine.

My problem is that ive been strung along for the past few months and it has now come to the point where i need to decide on my new handset. At the mo im with 3 and my contract passed the magical 11 months in july

At this time i was told that orange would be launching "in the next few months" so i thought id wait for that. It didnt happen. Then there was the announcement about end of september and beginning of october and once again this is looking doubtfull.

I totally agree with ur comment about sniggering marketing depts. I work in marketing and never once have i come up with a strategy that would alienate so many potential customers.

Now im wondering, should i wait for Orange and voda or just upgrade my handset now(which has just become faulty)

Sorry, ive finished now, rant over, back to work!

[99900]

Data cards are not selling because the simple fact is that normal joe bloggs does not want them. They are designed for business customers only. However you will find that normal Joe bloggs will want the latest handsets.

Their is a big difference between a date card this is only for data transfeer and a handset that does something for the user. For example the Nokia D211 GPRS data card did not sell that well.

With regards the training

IF you go into store then at least one person has been on the 3G training course. Well they have were I live and we have 3 Orange stores and I have been in to them all and spoke to the phone trainer.

The Tech departments in orange have had the training and so have upgrades. All you have to do is call up and ask them and they will tell you about the phones.

The gen CS departments will only have basic training because they are there for billing and customer issues and there for anything else. That is why they are paid less.

Its about cost they would only train the staff that come into daily contact with a product and the rest who might occasonally come across a product then they will do a quick course for them.

IF you are Orange customer call the handset team, upgrade team or 156 for wirefree and speak to them about the handsets they will tell you about them.

[Ukim]

Daz, hi. Some have opted out after 11 mths and some have stayed. It's not been made easy to make choices because of the delay in the other operators coming to marketing - and when they have they have selected business marketplace.

In fairness to three - the other are living off three's back. They have done all the work. Whether three will get better, I'm not sure but I am willing to run their system in parallel with one of the others and trial it for a year.

For my personal use
- do I get cheap voice calls - YES
- do I use video - Yer sometimes and it worked well
- can I surf the net - No walled garden (but I don't need it for me anyway, but would like the option)
- do I get good coverage - Yes in places usually dense urban areas

Would it make sense for me to change - NO

It could be different for you - but I do think that if multi-billion pound companys are in difficulty in saying when the launch, when handsets are available etc - then in my view I withe the devil I know.

Sorry if that doesn't fully answer your question.

You are right to RANT !

[Ukim]

Jon3G - I do accept you believe it, I am going to wait and see.

[A1c]

"In fairness to three - the other are living off three's back. They have done all the work. Whether three will get better, I'm not sure but I am willing to run their system in parallel with one of the others and trial it for a year."

I'm not sure I know what you mean by the above statement. Others living off 3's efforts? Hardly!!! I doubt if any of the other networks have gained any benefit from the botched launches of 3 products and the massive price cutting! Added to this is the fact that all of the 3G networks have been commissioned independently, so some may actually work better than others. We shall have to wait though to see.

An important factor in all of the speculatiion about services is the fact that we have 4 big networks with GSM/UMTS and one new entrant under a lot of pressure with UMTS only. Customers are not generally interested in technology for the sake of it and with a dazzling selection of cute GSM handsets on offer will choose not only on price but will take account of fashion trends and previous experience. So it's an uphill struggle for 3 UK with just 2 UMTS handset options even taking into account the 'giveaway' subsidised deals, which can't last forever. Its a difficult proposition as 3 UK found out in the early days to ask people to buy something they don't consider they need. Sure video is nice and videocalling could be fun but what most folks want is a phone that works well and lets them talk and text reliably. The latter is the key factor as most of us now take mobile calling for granted and not many folks have the budget or the desire to run two mobiles in parallel. Being realistic, most folks just about manage the basic phone functions and are quite happy with that!

Enthuisasts on forums like this one often confuse the issues and in terms of mobile phones the battle will be won/lost on the basis of availability of product range, reliability of service, ease of use, unique product benefits and the reputation of the network. Price will also be an issue but only as part of the bigger assessment that customers make before commiting themselves to a phone network that most now rely on on an everyday basis.

[99900]

I do agree with that

[Ukim]

*****************************
"In fairness to three - the other are living off three's back. They have done all the work. Whether three will get better, I'm not sure but I am willing to run their system in parallel with one of the others and trial it for a year."

I'm not sure I know what you mean by the above statement. Others living off 3's efforts? Hardly!!! I doubt if any of the other networks have gained any benefit from the botched launches of 3 products and the massive price cutting! Added to this is the fact that all of the 3G networks have been commissioned independently, so some may actually work better than others. We shall have to wait though to see.

An important factor in all of the speculatiion about services is the fact that we have 4 big networks with GSM/UMTS and one new entrant under a lot of pressure with UMTS only. Customers are not generally interested in technology for the sake of it and with a dazzling selection of cute GSM handsets on offer will choose not only on price but will take account of fashion trends and previous experience. So it's an uphill struggle for 3 UK with just 2 UMTS handset options even taking into account the 'giveaway' subsidised deals, which can't last forever. Its a difficult proposition as 3 UK found out in the early days to ask people to buy something they don't consider they need. Sure video is nice and videocalling could be fun but what most folks want is a phone that works well and lets them talk and text reliably. The latter is the key factor as most of us now take mobile calling for granted and not many folks have the budget or the desire to run two mobiles in parallel. Being realistic, most folks just about manage the basic phone functions and are quite happy with that!

Enthuisasts on forums like this one often confuse the issues and in terms of mobile phones the battle will be won/lost on the basis of availability of product range, reliability of service, ease of use, unique product benefits and the reputation of the network. Price will also be an issue but only as part of the bigger assessment that customers make before commiting themselves to a phone network that most now rely on on an everyday basis.
*******************************

I think it important to establish I am not fixed to one network. I use GSM as standard service. I use 3 as my learning curve because none of the other major players had realistically done anything in the UK. It is only fairly recently that Vody and Orange have done something. This is pushed (airbrushed) to the background by those discussing the other networks to criticise 3. 3 have made cocks-ups, no one disagrees, but can you make the same assessment about Vody or Orange? Answer, No. There is simply no historical data for reference - they have yet to produce a significant consumer 3G track record. They sat back to see how 3 coped (not brilliantly I might add) and the other operators watched the mistakes made. That type of learning is living off 3's back.

Interestingly, you did not mentioning Orange are promoting two handsets (re: Jon3G "dummy handsets of the z1010 and 8150 in store"). Does your opinion apply to Orange then when you say "So it's an uphill struggle for 3 UK with just 2 UMTS handset (Re: 3GSU)"?

Some of my comments are also relevant to my business needs where I have to make a decision. So whether video etc is relevant to a consumer owning one phone - is something I cannot debate, as its personal choice. As I use 3 in business and I am consumer user, my perceptions are based at both ends of the scale. My comments may not be relevant to everyone or anyone - they are just observations born from experience.

So I don't say you're wrong 3GSU, or Jon3G, but I am simply not convinced yet by pre-market hype. Let Vody and Orange get on supply the networks and goods - then we can all make a critical assessment in the same we have all done for 3.

However, this particular discussion is steering away from the long threaded discussion early - that was about *marketing hype* about what will or will not happen.

[Gunner]

"Interestingly, you did not mentioning Orange are promoting two handsets (re: Jon3G "dummy handsets of the z1010 and 8150 in store"). Does your opinion apply to Orange then when you say "So it's an uphill struggle for 3 UK with just 2 UMTS handset (Re: 3GSU)"?"

Orange have many many handsets. The rest just aren't UMTS ;) The difference with Three UK is that their handset range is very limited. While this could have been attributed 100% to the failure of manufacturers to create new UMTS handsets before, since Vodafones 10-handset announcement it would appear that at least some of the 'blame' lies with Three UK's ability to secure supply.

It's very hard compare Three UK with the incumbent operators, given that 3G is Three's primary technology, where as the other networks will use it as a secondary technology to target higher revenues. I think what we have had proven to us is that 3G is a next-generation 'overlay' network that will offer high-bandwidth services in many areas, while GSM continues to handle the bulk of voice calls and SMS messages for many years to come across the networks as a whole.

BTW Ukim - if you hit Quote then the previous post will be quoted in your reply.

[99900]

Just spoke to orange upgrades

Here is a summary of the call

Is the SE Z1010 out yet?

No, but very very shortly

We are currenltly doing a soft launch which started in September and the that started with stuff on the site and on Orange world. The first phones should be out shortly. We are then planning a major promotion for Christmas which will be the big launch.

She then said we never find out about when they are coming out, sometimes A customer will call up and then they ask for a phone I say its not out but then I look and its there with the price.

She said they had a couple of working models the other day in the centre and they looked really good.

Really the information I have been given rings true because the information above has happened

[Ukim]

Okay - when this started out we were talking about 3G, not GSM included. 3GSU then dropped GSM into the discussion. My points are solely addressed about 3G.

If this matter can be simplified any further then all I can say is how can we *benchmark* 3 as a 3G network against other networks operating 3G when they are not ready yet. The comparisons being made were speculative as there is no benchmark possible. This is why hype was mentioned.

If the discussion then expands outside of 3G by including GSM in the topic then the issues grow expotentially. I was trying to avoid typing a book just to discuss 3G. This is why I mentioned the thread was steering away from what was originally being discussed - hype being used to make criticism and comparison when no benchmark was in place. To me it is as simple as that.

abs0lutely - appreciate your comments about "quote" : - )

[Gunner]

Np re: quote.

I understand what you're saying about solely addressing 3G, but with regard to the other UK networks we must include their GSM networks also - unlike Three UK they are not Pure 3G networks, and the combination of UMTS and GSM will form the basis of their services for some 5, 10 or even 15 years to come.

Jon3G - congratulations on getting through ;) All my recent attempts failed. I emailed the Orange Shop, who just replied with a really unhelpful one-liner along the lines of "we can't tell you jack".

[Ukim]

Originally posted by abs0lutely
Np re: quote.

I understand what you're saying about solely addressing 3G, but with regard to the other UK networks we must include their GSM networks also - unlike Three UK they are not Pure 3G networks, and the combination of UMTS and GSM will form the basis of their services for some 5, 10 or even 15 years to come.

Jon3G - congratulations on getting through ;) All my recent attempts failed. I emailed the Orange Shop, who just replied with a really unhelpful one-liner along the lines of "we can't tell you jack".

Yer ok, I take you point.

[ColinR]

Thank heavens the Z1010 and the LGs are finally on Orange's handset list!

I have been stumbling along for more than a year with my 6210, for the simple reason that Orange will be launching their 3G services "soon". I remember talking to a mate at a barbecue LAST August Bank Holiday saying that I liked the tech behind 3G, but the battery life was too poor at the moment. I went on to explain that I didn't want to upgrade my 2.5G phone to another 2.5G phone because usable 3G must be just around the corner.

Eventually 3 released the nec616 (a phone I quite liked despite stupid default settings - EVERYTHING has to be changed!), but I despised 3's customer services (a complaint I've never had with Orange). Fortunately, I didn't terminate my contract with Orange - I just diverted my number while I used the 616. Additionally, I couldn't use the 616 for something I needed to do (access the web from my laptop). The 6120 does it (albeit VERY slowly), and I can do it with a landline. These two reasons made me decide that 3 wasn't the right choice for me despite the very competitive pricing.

15 months or so down the line, I'm still awaiting Orange's launch of 3G. :( Despite it always being "soon". I bet Duke Nukem in DN:4Ever will be using Orange's 3G service! :D (Gamer's joke)

[Gunner]

ColinR - Call Orange Upgrades NOW! :D

Not only can you upgrade, you can upgrade freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[99900]

Is that for 3G

[ColinR]

I am aware that I can upgrade to a 2.5G phone for nothing (indeed, Orange have phoned me on a number of occasions offering me an upgrade) but I don't want to be in a position where I've got 9 months to run on a 2.5G contract while 3G is taking off. There is an element of geek chic here!!! :D

I have to have the latest gizmos (I was the first of my mates to have a mobile, and first to have a 3 mobile too (even though I took it back)).

Can I get the Z1010 on the upgrade line now? Unlikely. But I'll take a wander (to the shop) anyway and a phone call.

[Gunner]

Well yes, you could half an hour ago. My friend just tried to do his too and "apparently" my upgrade was in error and it would be impossible for me to receive the phone...................

*disgruntled*

I'm about to go mental ¬_¬

[99900]

Originally posted by abs0lutely
ColinR - Call Orange Upgrades NOW! :D

Not only can you upgrade, you can upgrade freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Do you mean this for Orange 3G phones

SE Z1010
LG 8150

[99900]

How would that be possable when the systems do the upgrade and it wont let you unless the systems say so. No human error could cause this.

Have you tried hponing them back?

[Gunner]

They're calling me back - I'm waiting atm :(

But the evul moo my friend spoke to said that it doesn't matter whether the system let my upgrade go through or not, I wont receive the phone.

I believe what you say - that the system wouldn't let the upgrade (and my free videomessage add-on!) go through if it wasn't possible! I've even got the number I need to call tomorrow morning to activate my USIM FFS!

[99900]

Just spoke to them at upgrades (20 mins wait)

Told the phones are not out and wont be out till october. THe only people who have been given handsets were trialists and this was back in August.

Shame

[Gunner]

Grrr! I hate missinformation!

I'll let you know what happens when I finally get my callback.

Probably best the rest of you don't badger the upgrades department until I've heard back - the last thing I need is her calling all irate because their call volumes have shot up! ;)

[ColinR]

I think I must've been waiting 19 minutes (before I really had to hang up)!!! I did notice that the hold music improves to Belle & Sebastian...

Anyway, my trip to the shop did unearth the nugget that the Z1010 will be available "at the end of October. 3G? Yeah, the end of October." Without prompting for the 3G question. I'll phone again later on my trip home on the train.

[agent O]

Originally posted by ColinR
I bet Duke Nukem in DN:4Ever will be using Orange's 3G service! :D (Gamer's joke)

he wil be using 5G by the time that game is ready!!! ;)

i have found the Z1010 fine on orange 3G. so far so good. (its a bit *** tho)

the 3 stars should read f a t
come on admins can we have the filter turned down a couple of notches. you cant even use the word @dvanced

[99900]

Originally posted by agent O
he wil be using 5G by the time that game is ready!!! ;)

i have found the Z1010 fine on orange 3G. so far so good. (its a bit *** tho)

the 3 stars should read f a t
come on admins can we have the filter turned down a couple of notches. you cant even use the word @dvanced

Do u have any idea when they will release or when does ur trial finish

[ColinR]

Fwiw, the Orange store I went to (Liverpool Street Station) said end of October.

[99900]

getting very annoying now.

Spoke to CS told 1st OCtober

SPoke to upgrades told end of OCtober

Spoke to Orange shop told end october and then told 1st october by the same store

orange wirefree told me november

THis is getting bad

[Gunner]

It's an absolute sham. The woman who was supposed to call me never did. So, fingers crossed and we'll see what comes tomorrow. Perhaps it'll go through, but I doubt it. Even if there was a possibility the phone would go out, I'd imagine the *other* woman will have made sure it doesn't.

Will let you know the outcome.

[Ukim]

De ja vu

[Dazwantanuphone]

What do you mean getting bad, its been like this for months, all of the networks are misleading potential customers

It sucks. Id list the info ive had but it ranges from october 1st to 2nd quarter 2005 due to serious probs thown up during the trial.

[Gunner]

Well guess what the outcome was :mad:

No one called me. I called Orange today at 8am and got the tracking number for parceline. Parceline didn't have the phone.

Called Orange back - upgrade had been cancelled.

Call wait times of over 30 minutes by 9am. Operator refused to escalate a complaint about either my upgrade mixup or the waiting times. He said the only way they can take a complaint is to note it to my account - but no one will ever see it.

Pretty peeved to be honest. Not a good way to treat paying customers. Nothing even resembling an appology for what has happened.

To add insult to injury, it's the rumoured launch date today - can pretty safely say that it's *not* happening. The guy reckoned it would have been impossible for me to get a Z1010 as they simply don't have any more than the 700 handsets distributed for the trial.

:mad:

[Gunner]

Oh, yeah - they cancelled my upgrade, but did they cancel the video bundle? Did they hell! It was still there and I would have been charged for it on my next bill.

[OrangeCSR2]

You are not alone abs0lutely with incorrect upgrades.

Hope you get things sorted out

Ukim

it seems to me you are a 3 UK man. Well lets see if they perform against Orange and Vodafone. Rememeber 3 have not got their own 2 g network so the service will never be up to scratch.

Good luck

[DumpyB]

Just browsing through the section and I am uncertain as to whether OrangeCSR and OrangeCSR2 are one and the same person. The reason I ask is that I am now a singleman, again and now that I've got no ties, was wandering whether the OrangeCSR(2) person had some suggestions on who I need to speak to get a job working for the company with the best gadgets and service, IMHO

[MJH]

The Orange website now has the "Orange to Launch 3G Services" tab removed?

[Gunner]

The Orange 3G section is still there though, and the handsets are still in the Orange shop... It's impossible to even speculate what's going on with the networks atm - all very cloak and dagger.

[MJH]

Another thing I've noticed on the 3G chat section via WAP, is in response to a question about the handsets Adrain at Orange said that "..with other handsets following shortly after"? So I take it that'll most likely be the Nokia 6630 and the Motorola A1000.

Has any one read the new T3 mag? The Z1010 gets a poor review and the LG gets a quick preview singing it's praises and incorrectly stating that it will have Bluetooth. They also take a look at the A1000.

[A1c]

Might be an idea to put them right then!

T3 is all about cutting edge technology products so its not surprising that they would have little to compliment a first generation 3G handset about. I doubt if too many Z-1010's will find their way onto the market as a much better SE model has already been announced.

Perhaps the Z-1010 will end up a collectors item and become valuable some day. Just think it could be the big find on the Antiques Roadshow in 2104!

[Gunner]

Perhaps the Z-1010 will end up a collectors item and become valuable some day. Just think it could be the big find on the Antiques Roadshow in 2104!
LOL! *Puts Z1010 in his will, puts box and manuals in tuppaware* - better make sure I don't scratch it then huh.

Wonder why it got a poor review :\

Orange have the V800 coming out in February - that's the only 'new' handset that the CS staff knew about a few weeks ago.

[MJH]

V800 is the only new they're talking about!!

Heck, well guess I'm going to have to wait for that one then. That'll make it a year of waiting for an upgrade :)

Hope they get it for the 1st February, I can manage just about that long :D

[ColinR]

Has any one read the new T3 mag? The Z1010 gets a poor review and the LG gets a quick preview singing it's praises and incorrectly stating that it will have Bluetooth. They also take a look at the A1000.
But they can't say something along the lines of "...frankly this handset looks rubbish and I'm dreading the day it comes into the office for review..." because then manufacturers won't send them kit to review. It happens a lot in computer game mags. The previews always say "This game looks like it'll be great..." then when they review it they say its pants (if it is).

I'd rather have a Z1010 anyway, because I've got a mate with an 8110, and the 50 doesn't look different enough. Besides, if the Z1010 IS crap, I can take it back within a couple of weeks and get an LG.

[Gunner]

All the LG's are pretty similar... the design has improved, and I think there's some more memory? Anyway, fact remains that there's no expandable memory or Bluetooth.

I really am finding the Z1010 very good. There are a few bugs, which I'll document shortly in follow-up of my initial review, but it's far more usable than my SE T610 was. I love showing it off :P

[MJH]

I'll post the main jist of the review sometime tomorrow. As far as I remember now it got 3 out of 5 stars overall with the advice "wait for something smaller".

[A1c]

From The Bristol Evening Post (27/10/2004):


Bristol mobile phone giant Orange has delayed the launch of its third generation (3G) service until the New Year. The French-owned firm had planned to go ahead with its new 3G video phones before Christmas in France and the UK.

But the Aztec West company is not the only mobile phone operator to have announced a launch delay. Rivals O2 are also holding off.

It means that Vodaphone, T-Mobile and 3 UK are the only networks to have video-capable handsets ready for the festive season.

A spokeswoman for Orange said: "We will be launching 3G handsets in the next few months.

"We view 3G as a really significant market but we will not launch into it until we are convinced that we can deliver an excellent experience to our customers, including good handsets, good customer service and a reliable network with useful services."

The image of 3G phones has been tarnished in recent months because of technical problems including dropped calls, overheating handsets and poor battery life.

Orange has already launched a limited 3G service in the summer, targeting the business community with its Mobile Office card for use on laptop PCs allowing video conferencing and faster internet access.

The Orange spokeswoman said: "In July, we had 3G coverage of 66 per cent of the UK and that continued to improve month by month.

"Our mobile card has been very successful."

Competitor Vodafone is hoping to launch 10 new 3G handsets next months with Deutsche Telekom-owned T-Mobile also aiming to have a series of handsets ready before Christmas.

Industry experts said what mattered was not to get out there first but to get the service right.

Crispi Thomas, from TMTI technical support company in Beckington near Bath, said: "I don't think any network will suffer greatly from delaying their launch because technology is well ahead of consumer needs.

"People are still coming to terms with digital camera phones.

"Everybody sees the potential of 3G, but it will be a while before they all want to upgrade."

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=145366&command=displayContent&sourceNode=145030&contentPK=11195426

[simax]

Well, just successfully whittled my 5 Orange contracts down to 1 in the last few days (Thanks eBay!).

Why? To allow space for 2 Z1010's for the launch in November.....

....looks like I'm stuffed now! :mad:

Now - the dilemma - do I wait and just use PAYG for the interim, or just say "Sod it, I'll wait a year" and get one then...

Discuss...

Simon

[Gunner]

Well I guess that's that then :\ I do think they're going to find it increasingly hard to sell the handsets they've already purchased once Vodafone launch with their superior lineup though. To not want to shift their stock indicates that they really really don't think they're ready yet.

Mystified :\ Just glad I got my handset when I did. Sucks for everyone else waiting for Orange 3G handsets though.

[MJH]

Well that news from Orange has really p****ed me off!!

I back what abs0lutely said, in my short experience with the company I know Orange don't go with anything unless they consider themselves ready to deliver. I just wonder whether the Z1010 factor has had anything to do with it too? At what point are they going to stop production of it? And will anyone want it with the V800 looking much better?

Anyway, I did promise the main bits of the T3 Z1010 review.

The Good
"Ease of use, memory card slot, dual camera's, theme customisation, one the most complete 3G handsets available"

The Bad
Size "Forget about jean pockets - you'll need a backpack for this monster."

The Verdict
"A great handset that's just too big to be truly practical. Hold off for something smaller in the near future"

They gave it 4/5 for performance, 3/5 for value giving it 3/5 in Total.

Has anyone rung CS to check whether the story holds up? Not that we can expect to get a uniform answer from them :)

[Gunner]

Ah so it was the size thing. Well, next to my e606 the Z1010 is quite a bit smaller - and it fits in my jeans pocket quite well actually. I wouldn't take it on a night out, but day to day it's fine. Anyway, I'm sidetracking...

I've not called CS about this, but they most likely wont know anyway. Each member always tells you something different, probably from the info they were told when each group were 3G trained.

However, I did call CS today on my PAYG asking about how often I top up and how much. I don't remember it being a fixed price of 25p per call once you're connected? I thought that was good. There was also no hold time (this is at lunchtime?!) which is worlds apart from the 20-30min hold times I'd previously experienced. I only mention this to expand upon my post the other day when I said the experience when I called CS from my contract phone had greatly improved. Lets hope it stays this way - back to how it should be.

Must say, I'd be pretty gutted if I didn't already have my phone on hearing this launch-delay news. Still, I'm sure it's for the best.

[A1c]

The story is from a small regional newspaper - their point appears to be that the launch is'nt going to be the full fireworks stuff that everyone seems to have expected but those in the know already are aware that Orange already said they would 'soft launch' with 2 handsets through their own outlets in a limited number of areas.

I suspect Orange will still launch with 40K handsets in Nov/Dec through Orange shops and direct upgrades. I suppose that amounts to a delay in terms of full 3G launch but it if happens it still represents a first step into the technology for mainstream mobile comms use and that's a start.

I totally agree that regardless of whether the limited launch happens or not - you cant argue with the principle of waiting to ensure customers get a product that is distinctive and better than that available on GSM.

[MJH]

I have just got off the phone from Orange Upgrades asking about 3G. They lady in question was very helpful, and flicked through an email about it.

They (upgrades I take it) are not due to get a briefing until the week before launch. So it didn't really clear anything up from my view we're still left wondering. :confused:

[MJH]

Not looking good I'm afraid

"Orange sees churn rate rise and admits 3G hitch
By Elizabeth Judge



ORANGE, the mobile phone operator, has suffered an alarming jump in customers defecting to rivals.

It also admitted yesterday that it will manage only a partial launch of third-generation (3G) phones by Christmas.

In the three months to September the percentage of customers leaving the French-owned mobile operator in the UK — the churn rate — was 26.1 per cent, up from 20.6 per cent in the same period last year.

The loss comes after ever more aggressive strategies by rival operators to win customers in what is one of Europe’s most competitive mobile markets.

In the past year, 3, the third-generation phone provider, has followed a particularly aggressive strategy, offering low tariffs and heavily subsidised handsets to lure customers. The strategy has paid off with the company adding 270,000 subscribers to its network in July alone.

In a further blow, Orange admitted that it would manage only a partial launch of its own next-generation 3G mobile services in both France and the UK before Christmas.

In contrast, its biggest rival in the UK, Vodafone, has just confirmed a full launch of 3G phones in November.

The problems overshadowed an otherwise better than expected set of results for France Télécom, Orange’s parent company.

Earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation (Ebitda) in the three months to September 30 were €4.86 billion (£3.4 billion).

Analysts had predicted Ebitda of between €4.7 billion and €4.9 billion.

Sales rose 4.5 per cent on a like-for-like basis to €12.04 billion. Analysts had expected sales of about €11.94 billion.

Sales in the Orange division — France Télécom’s key growth engine — were up 10 per cent to €5.184 billion.

The group also confirmed targets that include 3 to 5 per cent underlying annual revenue growth until the end of next year.

A spokeswoman for Orange UK played down the importance of the increased churn rate.

She emphasised that the company had enjoyed a net increase of 140,000 in subscribers in the period and said that a recently launched £12 million advertising campaign would ensure the company wins back more customers.

Arun Sarin, chief executive of Vodafone, will personally launch his company’s portfolio of third-generation services on November 10.

The success of the multibillion-pound investment is vital for the mobile phone giant’s growth and would help Mr Sarin, who joined Vodafone last year, to put his stamp on the company."

So thats me hopping to Vodafone then.

[Dazwantanuphone]

Me too, have always had Orange till I got this brick of a 3 phone, but it seems this time that voda is gonna be the best option for the next 12 months.

[Gunner]

*shoves Orange to one side for the moment*

Vodafone are launching 3G on November 10th? :eek:

[MJH]

Their top guy is launching their services, but it maybe the launch date maybe say 1st December.........I hope not......I WANT IT THE SAME DAY(bangs desk and stamps feet).....I'm sorry it's my patience, it's wearing a little thin :)

[hotphil]

MJH, maybe not that long to wait - the advertising's started proper now (see the post I've just made in the "Nokia Samsung Sanyo...." thread here (http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?p=54127&posted=1#post54127)

[solo12002]

why 10th of Nov its a wed, is that a miss print from paper, maybe it should be 01 Nov ??

[MJH]

Nice one phil. They did have the same advert in the current issue of the Orange mag, it's good to know it has found a wider audience.

The Samsung is a plus, and the fact that there are two more due next year means things are looking up.

I'm glad there was a response from Orange to the article in the Times, it shows they're still on course.

Fingers crossed :)

[MJH]

OK so now I'm confused and don't know what to do for the best!?

I've picked up the new Orange mag it has the Sanyo S750 http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/details.php?id=964 & Nokia 6630 as coming soon now. The Sanyo boasts 2 cameras, the back is a 1.3 megapixel camera and the other a plain old 310k and it has bluetooth as well. The Nokia looks like it could tempt me back to Nokia phones. Also they mention the Samsung D500 (which I know isn't 3G) which is the only non 3G phone I'd choose.

I have also picked up the latest CPW mag which has an advert in for Vodafone 3G (featuring Sharp 902, Motorola V980 & SE V800 )allowing you to pre-order your phone.

I'm sure you appreciate my predicament and all help is welcome :confused:

[Gunner]

Orange 3G will have far better coverage than Vodafone to start with. I'm totally impressed with how much coverage there is down here when Vodafone's coverage map doesn't even show plans for it!

The 6630 will no doubt be a stunning phone. Sanyo also recently came out top for customer satisfaction or something (is a news article on 3g.co.uk) so that'll probably be pretty good too. Might be worth waiting for those. The LG is boring, the Z1010 is great, but very first gen.

[A1c]

No doubt about it - Orange 3G will be available as stated by end 2004.

LONDON -(Dow Jones)- Orange, the mobile telecommunications arm of France Telecom SA (FTE), Thursday said its third generation, or 3G, services will be launched in the U.K. and France before the end of 2004.

There had been some press speculation that Orange would struggle to launch 3G services in its core markets by the end of the year.

Orange also unveiled its six 3G handset partners. It announced in July that it would offer handsets from LG Electronics Inc. (066570.SE) and Sony Ericsson, a joint venture between Sony Corp. (SNE) and LM Ericsson Telephone Co. (ERICY).

It said Thursday it will also offer handsets from Samsung Corp. (000830.SE), Nokia Corp. (NOK), Motorola Inc. (MOT) and a model from Sanyo Electric Co. Ltd. (SANYY) that will be sold on an exclusive basis by Orange in Europe.

Orange will sell the LG U8150, SonyEricsson Z1010, Samsung Z107, Sanyo S750 and Nokia 6630 mobile phones under its Orange Signature brand. These models will also support video phone services and video downloads.

The Sanyo handset is its first foray into the European mobile market and will include a mega-pixel high-definition camera.

Orange said Orange 3G customers can roam onto networks in Spain, Italy, Germany, France and the U.K. via its Freemove Alliance with Deutsche Telekom AG's (DT) T-Mobile unit, Telefonica Moviles SA (TEM) and Telecom Italia SpA ( TIM.MI),

Orange also announced Thursday that it has selected Nokia to build its 3G network infrastructure in Switzerland and Nortel Networks Networks Corp. (NT) to build the infrastructure in Belgium.

Orange has yet to detail its plans for 3G in Switzerland but plans to launch 3G in Belgium in the first half of 2005.

It said that its Belgian unit will study EDGE - or Enhanced Data rates for Global Evolution - services in the near future.

EDGE is a wireless technology that enables fast data speeds but unlike 3G, can be deployed on existing spectrum.

Orange has launched EDGE services in Romania and will launch the technology commercially in Slovakia in the first quarter of 2005.

Orange France will deploy EDGE in 2005 to complete the rollout of its 3G network.

-By Nic Fildes, Dow Jones Newswires; 44-20-7842-9264; nicolas.fildes@ dowjones.com

URL: http://money.iwon.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt_top.jsp?cat=TOPBIZ&src=704&feed=dji&section=news&news_id=dji-00072020041104&date=20041104&alias=/alias/money/cm/nw

[Taster]

just join 3

and wait for orange to catch up if U love em sooooooo much

[MJH]

Yeah right join 3 and watch the calls drop every time you go out of a 3G area!

[Gunner]

Add to that the fact that Three can still only manage LG, Moto and NEC and you'll understand that joining Three just isn't an option - especially if you need open data access.

This isn't a case of catch up - Orange and Three are using 3G in very different ways.

[Dazwantanuphone]

just join 3

and wait for orange to catch up if U love em sooooooo much

Im with 3!!! and i wouldnt wish them on anyone!

[Taster]

Ye there are using it to test with .....hoooot

[ColinR]

especially if you need open data access.

That's why I got rid of my 3 phone before my 2 weeks were up...and so why I've still got a crap phone that must be getting on for 3 years old :(

[99901]

http://www.orange.co.uk/services/3G/