limiting data speeds

[danma7_200]

If any o2 actually read this board please can you look into this for me. It seems you are limiting the speed of your UTMS/HSDPA network to EDGE speeds. All I want is a confirmation and reasoning, which your CS can't provide.

I would be eternally grateful for any help.

Dan

[Planner]

no, they dont limit the speed. the speed is limited by the capacity of the hardware installed on-site, distance from site, the amount of people using the cell and most importantly.... the backhaul capacity.

[danma7_200]

no, they dont limit the speed. the speed is limited by the capacity of the hardware installed on-site, distance from site, the amount of people using the cell and most importantly.... the backhaul capacity.

Hi Planner

Sorry for repeat posts/questions but this problem is annoying me. I'm nearly sure they are limiting the bandwidth or something is, which shouldn't be.

I know speed is dependent on a number of factors. Strong signal, HSDPA coverage, early in morning, different cell sites still can't manage over 15KB/s. I'm also aware that you are much more clued up to the workings of 2g/3g than most on here.

I want proof that speeds greater than 15KB/s are possible on O2. Someone out there must have the same setup as me. A HSDPA device and a laptop, www.speedtest.bbmax.co.uk. I know your not allowed to use phone as modem on o2, but its just to do a speedtest. The biggest annoyance is youtube videos take ages to load on my phone on o2 compared to Three (using emtube)

My speeds on Three were normally above 30KB/s.

Is there any software I can loads on my symbian phone that will show the capacity of the backhaul from a cell? (to rule that out)

Thank you planner for taking the time to respond to posts.

Dan

[DaveC]

If you are getting 15KB/s there must be a problem

I've just tried the site you mentioned using T-Mobile web'n'walk and got an average of 389KB/s down and 280KB/s up - and I know I often get faster.

Not sure if we have that many O2 3G users around on the forum

[evil Homer]

I just tried the speed check with my n95 plugged into my laptop via 3g.

Got 15k/s as OP stated.

So its definitely a network issue.

[danma7_200]

If you are getting 15KB/s there must be a problem

I've just tried the site you mentioned using T-Mobile web'n'walk and got an average of 389KB/s down and 280KB/s up - and I know I often get faster.

Not sure if we have that many O2 3G users around on the forum

Holy smokes! I'm green with envy.

Another poster, got the same results as me. Doesn't confirm it, but supports my view that o2 is limiting speed somewhere.

I don't quite understand o2. They paid billions for a 3g license. Maybe o2 will only bring there network into the 21st century when the 3G Iphone makes it debut.

Do any o2 staff use this forum, or is it possible to get to a tech support agent on the phone who is wised up?

Where I work, we have tech 1 tech 2 tech 3, tech 3 the specialists (Nortel data/telephony equipment). Do o2 have a tech 3?

Cheers

Dan

[Planner]

Listen very carefully to what i am saying. O2 are not limiting bandwidth.

it is a network issue, mostly down to the fact they have only 1 E1 per site on the majority of their sites.

stick your sim in a non hsdpa phone and you will hit 350kb

[Planner]

oh, i missed out the 'read between the lines'

[danma7_200]

Very mature of you Planner. Must of felt proud when you typed that.

If my ISP provides me with an 8Mb line, but I can only run at 0.5Mb where the central is saturated that has limited my bandwidth. Same thing true here. It's limited. It's not providing what it should. No matter how you word it planner.

I will try your "advice" when I get hold of a non HSPDA device, but I'm confident you will be wrong and it will still crawl at 15KB/s.

An E1 is 2Mb/s. Much above 128Kb/s! I'm pretty sure, in my town that people will not be using it much if at all in the early hours of the morning!

You are wrong Planner. The speed is limited. You can tell me til your blue in the face, that it's not limited but the facts speak for themslves.

[DaveC]

So, pay for a 3G HSDPA phone and get crap speeds or go for the cheaper option and get better speeds.

At the speeds both the O2 users were getting they could save even more money and stick to GSM!

[Planner]

hey, I aint standing up for them, I am answering the question 100% honestly and correctly from a point of view that neither yourselves nor the contact centre can. the fact you cant understand that and instead insist on blaming O2 for limiting bandwidth, is not my fault.

there are issues with the network as they are only just rolling out hsdpa in trial format, hence to my knowledge it isnt being advertised...

there will be an upgrade plan going on shortly to sort out the TX capacity

[danma7_200]

hey, I aint standing up for them, I am answering the question 100% honestly and correctly from a point of view that neither yourselves nor the contact centre can. the fact you cant understand that and instead insist on blaming O2 for limiting bandwidth, is not my fault.

there are issues with the network as they are only just rolling out hsdpa in trial format, hence to my knowledge it isnt being advertised...

there will be an upgrade plan going on shortly to sort out the TX capacity

Maybe I can't understand your point of view, because it's confusing Planner. It's the different definitions of limiting that you and I have.

Your definition is that they are not limiting. It's the capacity thats limited. Therefore they don't limit.

Mine - it is limiting, IF the capacity is limited

[Planner]

ok, your ISP deliberately reduces your bandwidth at peak times so you cant hog it.

2Mb E1's cost thousands of pounds each in rental to BT, to give you more bandwidth, they would have to be upgraded (because of the way HSDPA works).

the difference is, your ISP reduces what your share of their network is... O2, would have to upgrade their network more (which they are in the process of) to give you what your phone can handle.

[snu]

Maybe I can't understand your point of view, because it's confusing Planner. It's the different definitions of limiting that you and I have.

Your definition is that they are not limiting. It's the capacity thats limited. Therefore they don't limit.

Mine - it is limiting, IF the capacity is limited

There's a difference between "limited" and "limiting". The latter implies that O2 are actively trying to impede your performance, whereas the situation is probably just that they are being crap and under-investing in improving their network infrastructure.

Laziness vs malice.

[Planner]

the problem with investing, is you need to make the money back from the first investment (3g & licence) before your board will sanction more money to upgrade it.

as no 3G operator in the UK has yet recovered their costs of 3G (not including write downs) where is the incentive to invest good money after bad?

as an engineer, I want to be able to get all the latest things put into the network, i want capacity upgrades, link upgrades, new cells to cover holes and fix dropped calls, the latest system software... but the company reality is that somebody has to pay... and as the public arent paying (6% tfc compared against 2G), then who will?

[DaveC]

The sad thing is that other companies are investing. T-Mobile, once the poor relation, has a 3G network far bigger and has at least 1.8MB HSDPA deployed on all of it. They relalise if they are to get a good proportion of their money back then they have to invest so that people will move and take the extra services.

Yes, it is expensive, but they have now gone into a sharing agreement with a potential rival, that's how important they see their 3G roll out.

If O2 wait for the money to come in then the network will never get built. And when it does something else will have come along and have been adopted by the other 4

You see it from the point of view of an engineer, most of the population will see it from the point of view of the consumer. If the other 4 offer the goodies and get their pricing right then more and more people will want to move to 3G.
and they will be left standing.

The OP said he was getting speeds of 15KB/s - you can get that on a ten year old dial up modem.

I hope you do get your money. I would like to see O2 do well, but the gap between them and the other 4 is getting wider and wider and the cost of catching up will be even bigger.

[danma7_200]

The sad thing is that other companies are investing. T-Mobile, one the poor relation, has a 3G network far bigger and has at least 1.8MB HSDPA deployed on all of it. They relalise if they are to get a good proportion of their money back then they have to invest so that people will move and take the extra services.

Yes, it is expensive, but they have now gone into a sharing agreement with a potential rival, that's how important they see their 3G roll out.

If O2 wait for the money to come in then the network will never get built. And when it does something else will have come along and have been adopted by the other 4

You see it from the point of view of an engineer, most of the population will see it from the point of view of the consumer. If the other 4 offer the goodies and get their pricing right then more and more people will want to move to 3G.
and they will be left standing.

The OP said he was getting speeds of 15KB/s - you can get that on a ten year old dial up modem.

I hope you do get your money. I would like to see O2 do well, but the gap between them and the other 4 is getting wider and wider and the cost of catching up will be even bigger.

Very well written.

O2 are now losing out on £7.50 a month revenue as when I want to use to web now in future, I'll pop in my Three sim card as 15KB/s is too restricting.

It'll be like now. People pick o2, over tmobile, because coverage i on 2g. Soon it'll be the other way round on 3g.

O2 are a great network and a big deciding factor picking them, rather than staying on Three, was 1)offered N82 first, and they have HSDPA in my town. If I'd known HSDPA runs at EDGE speeds all the time, I wouldn't of gone with them. So as a consumer I feel a bit robbed/lied to.

Dan

[thespirit3]

Same problem here. HSDPA phone showing the H logo, good coverage, and strict limit of 15kbps on O2. I've called them may times and they insist I should be seeing 100+kbps. However, I've tried at all times of day in Bristol, Birmingham and London (currently sat at Heathrow) and despite having the HSDPA logo visible ... 15kbps.

I was previously with Vodafone data and regularly got 60kbps with a non HDPSA card.

Very frustrating. The fact they've screwed up my billing a number of times (the most recent being a demand for £1700 for an account I closed last December) makes me want to get away from O2. The fact their data service doesn't operate as advertised plus the constant cockups on both my personal and business account billing is surely enough to void any cotract I have with them?

*head desk*

[MATLOUGH]

I've just joined 02 (from Orange) and using the Orbit 2 I'm getting on average 500 kbit/sec. (TEST SITE IS DSLREPORTS.COM)

Compared to everyone else this seems to be very good - but should HSDPA produce broadband speeds (1Mbps+)

[DaveC]

Not always - depends on a lot of factors. My T-Mobile runs between 400 ad 1.2 depending on circumstances.

O2 have been limiting speeds, but the cynic in me says things will get better for the 3G iphone.

[pctech]

the problem with investing, is you need to make the money back from the first investment (3g & licence) before your board will sanction more money to upgrade it.

as no 3G operator in the UK has yet recovered their costs of 3G (not including write downs) where is the incentive to invest good money after bad?

as an engineer, I want to be able to get all the latest things put into the network, i want capacity upgrades, link upgrades, new cells to cover holes and fix dropped calls, the latest system software... but the company reality is that somebody has to pay... and as the public arent paying (6% tfc compared against 2G), then who will?

I read that mobile ops are considering using DSL (specifically Symmetric DSL) as backhaul to bring costs down, so this should be bring down data costs and up speed a little yes? (though of course the networks will have to traffic shape and port block a little to stop the P2P bandwidth hogs who are slowly being ejected from fixed networks thank goodness.

[Planner]

its a guarenteed service DSL that is being looked at (Dubai for instance uses it for all its transmission), it would be no use having a 2Mb link that kept dropping to 56kb because the base station wouldnt work.

unfortunately, it wont bring the data costs down a great deal for several reasons..

1. you still need 1 E1 for sync purposes.
2. kit has to be modified.
3. because its guarenteed service, its a fair bit more expensive than normal DSL
4. it will be used for increased capacity.. ie, we may only have 1 E1 at the moment, but we will be going to 8 within the near future... so there is no reduction in cost, just an increase at less of a rate than we may of expected..

if that makes sense

[pctech]

its a guarenteed service DSL that is being looked at (Dubai for instance uses it for all its transmission), it would be no use having a 2Mb link that kept dropping to 56kb because the base station wouldnt work.

unfortunately, it wont bring the data costs down a great deal for several reasons..

1. you still need 1 E1 for sync purposes.
2. kit has to be modified.
3. because its guarenteed service, its a fair bit more expensive than normal DSL
4. it will be used for increased capacity.. ie, we may only have 1 E1 at the moment, but we will be going to 8 within the near future... so there is no reduction in cost, just an increase at less of a rate than we may of expected..

if that makes sense

Oh well cheap data is a way off then.

[sputnike]

Hopefully it's faster for you now? O2 is rolling out it's HSDPA and HSUPA systems and networks accross the country at the moment, so different cell sites are going down. And instead of taking all three down in any one area, they take one down at a time so theres no interference.

O2 has the second fastest coverage in the UK, only behind 3, who don't have quite as much coverage as us. That will all change very soon. The only reason I can possibly think of for your slow speeds, is the fact that you may be going past your fair usage policy by quite a bit? I mean on mobile handsets it's 200mb fair usage, but usually if you go over that even up to a hundred meg, nothing will happen.

If your using 1gb of data over the fair usage, then maybe O2 are slowing you down, but it's not as easy to slow a handset down as a home broadband connection for example. If I were you, call O2 customer service up, or go into a local O2 store, and see if the handsets there are having the same problem. If they are, make a complaint, and keep making complaints until it's followed up and fixed.