O2 branding on Sim Free phone?

[Doppa]

I've been watching ebay for months for a sim free Nokia N95 and it was always disappointing when I read the listings to find that a lot of sellers were describing a phone that was unlocked as sim free.

My understanding is that sim free has never been locked to any network and has no network branding or settings on the phone. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, I found one last week that was listed as follows:

Lets first start with the most important factor, this phone is SIM free, it has never been locked to any network and is has no branding from any network. You can use any sim card in the phone, either contract or pay as you go.

Well, needlesss to say I feel totally cheated because it has O2 settings on the phone. Yes, I can put my 3 and T-Mobile sim cards in and make a telephone call but I can't access the internet on either as it tries to connect through O2.

The seller says I just need to change the settings which I should get from 3 or T-Mobile but I think this misses the point. Also I thought that branded phones were limited by the network on certain things and that's one of the reasons I wanted a sim free phone.

Do you think I should just accept this or fight back? I'm sure you all will be better placed to advise me on this with your vast experience. Hope you can help please.

[pa49]

I've been watching ebay for months for a sim free Nokia N95 and it was always disappointing when I read the listings to find that a lot of sellers were describing a phone that was unlocked as sim free.

My understanding is that sim free has never been locked to any network and has no network branding or settings on the phone. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Anyway, I found one last week that was listed as follows:

Lets first start with the most important factor, this phone is SIM free, it has never been locked to any network and is has no branding from any network. You can use any sim card in the phone, either contract or pay as you go.

Well, needlesss to say I feel totally cheated because it has O2 settings on the phone. Yes, I can put my 3 and T-Mobile sim cards in and make a telephone call but I can't access the internet on either as it tries to connect through O2.

The seller says I just need to change the settings which I should get from 3 or T-Mobile but I think this misses the point. Also I thought that branded phones were limited by the network on certain things and that's one of the reasons I wanted a sim free phone.

Do you think I should just accept this or fight back? I'm sure you all will be better placed to advise me on this with your vast experience. Hope you can help please.


This could all be down to semantics!
'Technically' the seller has described his item correctly and honestly! The phone does not have any branding and is free to accept any SIM.
'Technically' you are correct in saying that a SIM free phone has never been branded or locked.
So, 'technically' you are both correct!
If you do a full reset (see my blog on debrand/update) using you T-mobile SIM, you will get a 'vanilla', unbranded, unlocked phone. Then apply your settings.
Check you have the latest ver firmware, check your product code and then if you don't have ver. 2 go down the update route and install it.
Once you get to that point and experience just how good this phone is, I think you will forget any thoughts about 'fighting back'!
I hope you got the N95 Classic! Enjoy the phone!

[MARK040657]

I Have been with O2 for a long time and it seems that all the phones i have had from them on a pay monthly contract are not locked to any network and will work with any other sim card, But has you said the network brand is stiil on the phone which is not easy to get rid off, To change the internet setting on the phone i would go to the other networks sites where most of them you can get a text sent to you phone which will change the setting so you can access the internet for the network you want,

I think you will be on a losing battle to claim that it is not sim free has the phone does work on other networks.

[Doppa]

Thanks for that pa49. Although I've been reading this forum for the past six months and picked up some good info, I just can't understand why the O2 firmware is on the phone in the first place if it is meant to be new and sim free. The seller said:

When I listed it as Sim free it is just that, this phone has never been locked to any network at all. It does have the 02 firmware on it but i didnt think this would be a problem for any new user.

I've been put off even playing with the phone because I'm so disappointed with it [not the phone itself as I think it's marvellous]. Also the phone has frozen up about half a dozen times in the hour or so I've used it wouldn't even switch off. The only way I could reset it was to take the battery out and put it back in. I've read that the branded firmware can cause this and that's one of the reasons I wanted a sim free phone with no branding. Do you think the O2 firmware is to blame or do you think the phone may be faulty?

I've found your blog [eventually] and will have a good read of it. I'm a little scared of doing anything like this but I may have to.

From reading through this forum a while ago I found details of the 3UK settings and I put them into the phone but the O2 settings come up just the same. I can't figure out how to make the 3UK the default settings or, worse still, I was worried the O2 settings were locked and it wouldn't be possible.

I've seen listings on ebay saying that the phone works on all networks except 3UK [why?] and was wondering if that had anything to do with it also.

Although the seller seems to be genuine, the truth is that I would not have even bought the phone had I known beforehand it had O2 firmware.

I'm off to read your blog now, thanks again.

[acoolwelshbloke]

First of all 02 firmware is pretty much the same as Nokia's generic version, the only difference being you will have 02 mms and wap settings pre-installed where as generic you have none!

Secondly as for the phone freezing well mine does that running v20 and mine is a sim free phone from the carphone warehouse! Been replaced once yet still freezes and the only way to get the phone working again is to take out the battery!

I think your over reacting a little, your handset is identical to a sim free phone apart from the these two little things:

1. MMS and WAP settings pre-installed for 02 network
2. you may have to wait a little longer for firmware updates

The chances of getting a real sim free handset off ebay are virtually none, the best you will ever get is an 02 contract so be happy and enjoy your phone unless you want to pay £479 for one from the carphone warehouse!

On another note i can give you my sim free phones product code if you wish? I got mine from carphone warehouse, once you change your phones product code just update firmware via nokia's website and your handset will be UK sim free! This does invalidate any warranty but your phone will not have any warranty on it anyway as it's non transferable!!

[Doppa]

Secondly as for the phone freezing well mine does that running v20 and mine is a sim free phone from the carphone warehouse! Been replaced once yet still freezes and the only way to get the phone working again is to take out the battery!

On another note i can give you my sim free phones product code if you wish? I got mine from carphone warehouse, once you change your phones product code just update firmware via nokia's website and your handset will be UK sim free! This does invalidate any warranty but your phone will not have any warranty on it anyway as it's non transferable!!

Thanks for that. The phone is running V12 and I was hoping it would have had V20 and I have looked into debranding as posted by pa49 but I'm a bit scared of that at the moment. So you think the freezing (it has also switched off and on for no apparent reason) are due to a problem with the phone and not the software. Do you think it may be faulty as well as everything else!

I don't understand the sim free product code - sorry I'm a bit thick.

I'm beginning to think I'm stuck with it but would appreciate anybody's help if they think it is faulty because of the freezing and switching off and on.

[Sicknote]

Hi acoolwelshbloke

I think you have it wrong about the phone warranty as I think it is on the phone and not with the person who buys it ;)

[acoolwelshbloke]

Nope I am correct!

I have purchased hundreds of nokia phones over the years, some new and some second hand.

I have taken a phone that i have purchased from ebay to a service centre before when it's only been on the market 3-4 months and I have been asked for proof of purchase!

When i explained i purchased it from ebay they refused to fix it as the warranty is non transferable!

Infact it's happened to me twice at two different service centre's!! :(

Warranty Period

The warranty period starts at the time of Product's original purchase by the first end-user. The Product may consist of several different parts and different parts may be covered by a different warranty period (hereinafter "Warranty Period"). The different Warranty Periods are:

a. Twenty-four (24) months for the mobile device and twelve (12) months for accessories (whether included in the mobile device sales package or sold separately) other than the consumable parts and accessories listed in (b) and (c) below;

b. six (6) months for the following consumable parts and accessories batteries, chargers, desk stands, headsets, cables and covers; and

c. ninety (90) days for the media on which any software is provided, e.g. CD-rom, memory card.

As far as your national laws permit, the Warranty Period will not be extended or renewed or otherwise affected due to subsequent resale, Nokia authorisedrepair or replacement of the Product. However, part(s) repaired or replacement product during the Warranty Period will be warranted for the remainder of the original Warranty Period or for sixty (60) days from the date of repair or replacement, whichever is longer.

THE KEY POINT:
The warranty period starts at the time of Product's original purchase by the first end-user.

[Sicknote]

I had a phone like that and the NSC near me did not ask for proof of purchased but this might be like ringing CS, it depends on who you get:rolleyes:

Ha ve you tried ringing one of them to sent it to and see what happens becasue they can look on they computer and tell when the warranty is up from the imei number.

Thats what they did with mine ;)

[acoolwelshbloke]

It was not the one phone, i had that problem with two different nokia handsets!

Don't want to take this post of topic but as you said they can tell by imei if it's under warranty and they can and do ask for proof of purchase!

If they discover you purchased the handset second hand they can refuse to repair the phone, i was told that at the time by both service centre's and i was given a Nokia customer services number to call and complain to not that it did me any good.

Now i do not buy high value phones second hand anymore at high prices just in case, not meaning to scare anyone but it's worth considering this in future!

On the other hand i have had others repaired no problems at all, i guess it'l like you said! It depends on the person you end up talking to although i would not like to risk £350+ on it!

[Planner]

it has O2 firmware on it, its branded. it was missold as far as i am concerned.

locking is a different kettle of fish.

[Doppa]

Thanks Planner, I'm glad someone agrees with me that it was mis-sold.

I've now had time to fiddle on with it (to use the technical term!) and although I'm disappointed with the 02 branding I'm really over the moon with the phone itself.

I was prepared to pay a lot more for it because it was listed as "sim free" but as it turned out I got it for a lot less than I was prepared to pay but more than I would have paid for an 02 branded one.

I've not had any more freezing up or switching off so I'm hoping this might have been a start up glitch which has settled down. Also I've got my 3UK settings to work so I think I'll just put up and shut up.

I'm still debating whether to debrand with the help of pa49's instructions. It's running V12 firmware so I suppose it will be worth it to get V20 but what benefits could I expect? I haven't put any contacts/files/programs/video etc on it yet so now is the best time to do it I expect as there is nothing to back up yet is there?

I'm also looking on ebay for another N95 for my other half. Can anyone tell me why some N95's say that they are open to all networks except 3UK?