Serious (and I mean serious) issue with T-mobile

[pa49]

At 19.34 this evening I received a txt from T-mobile on a contract phone that I took out in sept. The wording of the txt was as follows word for word-
"A payment credited to your T-mobile account in April wasn't debited from your card . Apologies, this will now be taken on 11 Oct. For more info call 150".
So I made the call and the CS rep told me that in April 07 in excess of 100,000 payments that had been taken from customers credit cards and bank accounts hadn't ended up being applied to customers accounts.
She had no information about where the payments had gone or who had got the money. She told me that the amount would appear as unpaid and that they would take this payment again to cover the outstanding amount.
I told her that my statements showed that the money had been debited, but, this didn't make any difference to her stance and she just held the line that the amount was outstanding and needed paying.
Firstly they informed me by txt on a contract number that is different to the one in question.
Secondly my payments are made using a prepaid mastercard and no payment can be taken without me having first credited the card (which I did) with the appropriate sum that needs being paid.
Thirdly they reqiure me to make enquiries about a sum that as far as I'm concerned has already been debited from my card balance.
Fourthly the CS rep admitted that the error/mistake was to do with a system failure involving T-mobile and Barclays who administer the handling of payments.
Fifthly this is a huge c*ckup which must affect many members of this forum.
If that is the case we must all stand together and require T-mobile and Barclays to sort this out and not each individual who is involved.
All this without any prior warning, no time to consider the position and no proof that the situation is as they have stated.
I asked for written confirmation of the situation giving who was to blame and why, but, was told I would not get any!!!!!!!!
Our cell phone service could be put in jeapordy through no fault of our own.
Someone has my money and maybe yours as well so who else has had this txt?

[gadgetnutter]

Holy Crap..and to think I was a heartbeat away from signing up with T-Mobile today!

Surely, your first call now, should be to your card company, as they surely have the muscle to apply a serious amount of pressure on T-Mobile.

[pa49]

Holy Crap..and to think I was a heartbeat away from signing up with T-Mobile today!

Surely, your first call now, should be to your card company, as they surely have the muscle to apply a serious amount of pressure on T-Mobile.

Holy Crap is right.
I don't feel inclined to do T-mobiles' work for then! My money has gone!!!!!!!!!
I have paid everything owed for every month they have billed me. Let them do the farting about to rectify the situation.
This is the exact wording of an email I have just sent to T-mobile in order to cover my back because the problem is that I have taken a second contract which was to be paid by direct debit and as they now have my bank details I bet they use this to try and take the money again.

"I have received a txt stating that there are some problems regarding a payment from April 07.
I have contacted CS and been told that due to an error in your/the payment handling system amounts remain outstanding.
I was told to take this up with my card issuer.
I know from my statements that this payment has been debited from my card account.
Before I take any steps I require written confirmation of the situation, stating what the problem is, where and why it arose, full information of who was involved (T-mobile and which banks and other service providers), full details of the appropriate billing amount with due dates and the date/s of collection of the amount in question, an explanation of why this has remained (if indeed it has) undetected, explanation of why there has been no notice of T-mobiles intent in this matter and a full staement of what will happen if this issue remains unresolved.
I am concened about the continued provision of my cellphone service.
I hereby withdraw any authority for T-mobile to attempt to take any money from any account in my name and I will consider any such attempt by T-mobile as a breach of any or all contracts that I may have with T-mobile.
I consider this to be a serious situation and one that I expect T-mobile to resolve as a matter of urgency."

Let's see what they make of that!
I would advise anyone who even thinks they may be affected to email in a similar tone before T-mobile try and take any more money! You don't have much time.:dead:

[uzin]

Just a few days ago T-Mobile told me that since 1st May their policy on changing tarifs is changed, from this date you can only downgrade your tarif after 11 months rather than 6 months (which I was promised when I signed my contract in April). I also asked for confirmation of this policy in writing and why does it apply to me (as I got mine in April). I was refused point blank and he was even annoyed that I'm staying on the phone asking him more questions.... ! Refered me to their website but couldn't give me the exact web page.

T-Mobile CS is going down hill as they had a good spell and got some clients and now don't need us any more !? (wait a year after many leave and they come back begging)

[biggzy]

i had the same problem with lowering my tarif, ask to speak to a manager and say ur not happy coz wen u signd up it said 6 month, the terms didnt change till 1st may so ANY1 who took out a contract before may is entitled to lower it, i had a CS tell me that i cudnt, i said i want to speak with a manager, was put thru, he got the terms up on screen to check what date they changed, as soon as he seen it was may 1st he said what wud u like ur tarif lowerd to, and that was it, just dnt give up.

[uzin]

I will try again but the CS was very persistant. I did ask him to speak to his manager (himself not me) but kept saying there is absolutely nothing you can do, it applies to you as well !!! (It's like the money is coming out of his pocket, such *******s......)

[tmobileworker]

Hi there,

I work with one of the UK companies outsourced to take t mobile calls. We were only told about this problem yesterday and have no explanation as to why they waited the full six months to take the money. The information and advice we were told to give is as follows:

On the 14th and 20th of April, payment files were not processed for Credit/Debit cards by Barclays Merchant Services(BMS). Money was credited onto the T-Mobile account but was not debited from the bank. By law we have a maximum of 6 months to take this amount after it was authorized. This problem has affected over 100,000 customers.

Please Please try not to get mad at the agent you speak to when your call is answered. There is nothing they will be able to do. We are horrified at the way this problem has been handled by T-Mobile and the fact that a standard sms was sent to all customers affected which did not even detail the amount in question. Two members of my team were also affected by this problem and are subject to the same rules. If you think you have gone overdrawn or think you have actually paid twice then the agent will advise you to send proof to:

Accounts Receivable
T-Mobile (UK) Ltd
Hatfield Business Park
Hatfield
Hertfordshire
AL10 9BW

If you want to complain then here are the details to use.
Email:cust.rel@t-mobile.co.uk
Post:
T-Mobile,
6 Camberwell Way,
Doxford Technology Park,
Sunderland,
SR3 3XN.

Please remember the scale of the problem will affect the time it will take to reply

Another note: One the things we were told to offer was a goodwill gesture was 50 free sms message which in my own opinion is a joke!

[scoobystu2]

I wolud suggest those concerned to contact the regulator and or trading standards. To demand monies without writtten proof IMHO is plainly not on.

[pa49]

I will try again but the CS was very persistant. I did ask him to speak to his manager (himself not me) but kept saying there is absolutely nothing you can do, it applies to you as well !!! (It's like the money is coming out of his pocket, such *******s......)

I had the lowering the tarrif problem as well. You must remember that anything that was said to you forms part of your contract and if you were told, as I was, that "you can always lower your tarrif after 6 months" then that is a contractual obligation on the part of T-mobile and they cannot alter it.
If you were told something falsely then that is misselling and you could void your contract.

[pa49]

Hi there,

I work with one of the UK companies outsourced to take t mobile calls. We were only told about this problem yesterday and have no explanation as to why they waited the full six months to take the money. The information and advice we were told to give is as follows:

On the 14th and 20th of April, payment files were not processed for Credit/Debit cards by Barclays Merchant Services(BMS). Money was credited onto the T-Mobile account but was not debited from the bank. By law we have a maximum of 6 months to take this amount after it was authorized. This problem has affected over 100,000 customers.

Please Please try not to get mad at the agent you speak to when your call is answered. There is nothing they will be able to do. We are horrified at the way this problem has been handled by T-Mobile and the fact that a standard sms was sent to all customers affected which did not even detail the amount in question. Two members of my team were also affected by this problem and are subject to the same rules. If you think you have gone overdrawn or think you have actually paid twice then the agent will advise you to send proof to:

Accounts Receivable
T-Mobile (UK) Ltd
Hatfield Business Park
Hatfield
Hertfordshire
AL10 9BW

If you want to complain then here are the details to use.
Email:cust.rel@t-mobile.co.uk
Post:
T-Mobile,
6 Camberwell Way,
Doxford Technology Park,
Sunderland,
SR3 3XN.

Please remember the scale of the problem will affect the time it will take to reply

Another note: One the things we were told to offer was a goodwill gesture was 50 free sms message which in my own opinion is a joke!

Many thanks for your input on this one. I appreciate it because I know you didn't have to!!!!!!!

What you say is exactly what the CS rep told me.
I see this as another heavy handed action by a big company.
Direct debit agreements are to allow authorised bodies to take their due payments on or around the date agreed and when payable. Not to just help themselves when they feel like it! Error or no error it makes no difference.
In my case it's worse because I didn't have a DD mandate and I think they have gone for it when they saw my second contract with one.
I have just checked and there has, so far, been no attempt to access my account.
Be aware that anyone who has your DD mandate that you cancel, can attemt to set it up again at any time. (just got that from the bank!)
This is going to run and run.

[pa49]

Hi there,

I work with one of the UK companies outsourced to take t mobile calls. We were only told about this problem yesterday and have no explanation as to why they waited the full six months to take the money. The information and advice we were told to give is as follows:

On the 14th and 20th of April, payment files were not processed for Credit/Debit cards by Barclays Merchant Services(BMS). Money was credited onto the T-Mobile account but was not debited from the bank. By law we have a maximum of 6 months to take this amount after it was authorized. This problem has affected over 100,000 customers.

Please Please try not to get mad at the agent you speak to when your call is answered. There is nothing they will be able to do. We are horrified at the way this problem has been handled by T-Mobile and the fact that a standard sms was sent to all customers affected which did not even detail the amount in question. Two members of my team were also affected by this problem and are subject to the same rules. If you think you have gone overdrawn or think you have actually paid twice then the agent will advise you to send proof to:

Accounts Receivable
T-Mobile (UK) Ltd
Hatfield Business Park
Hatfield
Hertfordshire
AL10 9BW

If you want to complain then here are the details to use.
Email:cust.rel@t-mobile.co.uk
Post:
T-Mobile,
6 Camberwell Way,
Doxford Technology Park,
Sunderland,
SR3 3XN.

Please remember the scale of the problem will affect the time it will take to reply

Another note: One the things we were told to offer was a goodwill gesture was 50 free sms message which in my own opinion is a joke!

Many thanks for your input on this one. I appreciate it because I know you didn't have to!!!!!!!

What you say is exactly what the CS rep told me.
I see this as another heavy handed action by a big company.
Direct debit agreements are to allow authorised bodies to take their due payments on or around the date agreed and when payable. Not to just help themselves when they feel like it! Error or no error it makes no difference.
In my case it's worse because I didn't have a DD mandate and I think they have gone for it when they saw my second contract with one.
I have just checked and there has, so far, been no attempt to access my account.
Be aware that anyone who has your DD mandate that you cancel, can attemt to set it up again at any time. (just got that from the bank!)
This is going to run and run.

[tmobileworker]

The problem, as far as I know, only relates to payments using a card and not direct debits and so any direct debit agreement wouldn't apply. Check your statements from April to check if the payments match on your bank account and your t-mobile bill.

[pa49]

The problem, as far as I know, only relates to payments using a card and not direct debits and so any direct debit agreement wouldn't apply. Check your statements from April to check if the payments match on your bank account and your t-mobile bill.

If that is the case then I wait to see if they try, fail and charge me for the failure.
If there are 100,000 customers in this position and they try to put through all as new credit card transactions then many are going to fail because people budget their finances.
In any event I am not going to pay twice!
And I still want proof of this failure in the system (it's sounding like it's Barclaycards' fault) and if there has been an error in the transaction administaration then let Barclaycard pay for it.
What gets me is that someone somewhere has said "oh well, just put them through again". That someone is an ignorant, arrogant selfserving SOB and I bet he/she ends up reading this thread. Yes, that's you. (Stick tongue out Smilie won't work DAMN!)

[Rusty2004]

I have just ordered an N95 on an 18 month contract with T-Mobile and, to be honest, after reading this I am regretting it.

I thought Orange's CS was bad but only over trivial matters. Taking money out of a customers bank account without authorisation and refusing to send any information in writing about why they are doing it, is not trivial.

T-Mobile should never have dealt with the problem that way and the 50 text "compensation" is an insult. They need to sort this out and appologise to the effected people quickly.

[pa49]

I have just ordered an N95 on an 18 month contract with T-Mobile and, to be honest, after reading this I am regretting it.

I thought Orange's CS was bad but only over trivial matters. Taking money out of a customers bank account without authorisation and refusing to send any information in writing about why they are doing it, is not trivial.

T-Mobile should never have dealt with the problem that way and the 50 text "compensation" is an insult. They need to sort this out and appologise to the effected people quickly.

UPDATE-
Received 2 calls from 'email resonse' department both reaffirmed that T-mobile are going to attempt to take the payments without any further explanation or information about the matter 'because they are entitled to take it at any time within six months'.
The rep was obviously embarrassed at having to deal with a customer with whom they she had every sympathy, but was also obviously quoting from a crib sheet issued by T-mobile. I didn't get any further.
This treatment is appauling in the extreme and my final word was 'do your worst, I'm still not paying twice!'

[Rusty2004]

I'm glad to hear you're standing your ground. They shouldn't expect you to pay at all, nevermind without knowing where the first payment went.

I mean if they have "mislaid" 100,000 people's money once, how can they asure customers it won't happen again? I think the answer is that nobody will be assured until information is released.

I am not sure what they can do if the payment is not there to be taken but, have 6 months not passed since they first tried to take it? If so, does this mean the payment has been voided?

[acoolwelshbloke]

Have I just read these posts right?

I am tired, didn't I just read t-mobile credited customers accounts with X amount but never actually processed the payments on the customers cards?

If so then t-mobile are correct and they can now take those payments!

[tmobileworker]

No money has ben mislaid and T-Mobile isn't trying to take the same money twice. The problem in my opinion is not that they are taking the money after 6 months but that they did not give customers prior warning so they could prepare for an unexpected outgoing in their bank.

For proof, all you have to do is check your t mobile statement (www.tmobile.co.uk (http://www.tmobile.co.uk))and your bank statement. If the payment is not on your bank statement then you have received the benefit without paying!

Of course she was reading from a 'crib sheet' if she hadn't then the information could be passed on incorrectly.

If your bank account goes overdrawn as a direct result then they are actually telling you to write to them! The same goes if think you paid twice.

I do think they are entitled to take the money since is actually quite a large sum if 100,000 people were affected on payments ranging from £5 to over £100 as it would amount to over a million pounds!

[pa49]

Have I just read these posts right?

I am tired, didn't I just read t-mobile credited customers accounts with X amount but never actually processed the payments on the customers cards?

If so then t-mobile are correct and they can now take those payments!
It seems that Barclaycard Merchant Services did not complete the transaction authorisations.
My payment was made by phone and the details were taken by a CS rep who gave the response that the payment had succeeded.
My card was debited and that was that!
They are entitled to their money but not twice and there is no proof that the first atempts failed only their word in a txt message and the CS response which is all wholly unacceptable.
If I send them a txt informing them that the payment has been made do you think they would leave it at that? Of course they wouldn't, they would want proof and so do I.

[tmobileworker]

????????????????????????????

Of course there is proof!

All you have to do is go into the bank and say "did T-Mobile take money from my account in April?"

If they say yes then T-Mobile shouldn't take the money again, if they say no then you still owe T-Mobile money! There is the proof. Using your example, if "If I send them a txt informing them that the payment has been made..." They would expect proof, if the money didn't turn up, and where would you get that proof? In the bank of course! T-Mobile are NOT expecting people to pay twice!


When the CS rep said the payment had been successful they meant that your card has been accepted. Name me one company that takes money from your account at the same time you use your card?

[scoobystu2]

????????????????????????????

When the CS rep said the payment had been successful they meant that your card has been accepted. Name me one company that takes money from your account at the same time you use your card?

Quite a few, but I am not posting MY bank stuff here. Put another way name another company that takes 6 MONTHS to take a payment !!!
This clearly is going to rattle a lot of people and quite rightly so. The whole point of DIRECT DEBIT is it takes place DIRECTLY not 6 months later. Doh.;)

[tmobileworker]

Nobody is asking for bank details here, I was referring to the way in which you find proof for yourself not to show me proof. Also, the problem did not affect Direct Debits.

It affected payments using a credit or debit card. Understandably it will rattle a few people but only because there was no time to prepare for the money coming out not because they are taking the money, it's T-mobiles money.

Tesco and other supermarkets, First Scotrail, Amazon and a lot of others don't take payments at the time of purchase.

[will252]

Nobody is asking for bank details here, I was referring to the way in which you find proof for yourself not to show me proof. Also, the problem did not affect Direct Debits.

It affected payments using a credit or debit card. Understandably it will rattle a few people but only because there was no time to prepare for the money coming out not because they are taking the money, it's T-mobiles money.

Tesco and other supermarkets, First Scotrail, Amazon and a lot of others don't take payments at the time of purchase.

The majority of companies will process all that days credit card payments over night at the same time, thus saving on phone bills. I cannot really see the problem, t-mobile are taking money that they are owed.

[timbo_baggins]

The OP states quite clearly that the money is shown as a debit balance on his account. So if T-Mobile take the money AGAIN then his account will have effectively been debited TWICE for one bill. And that is clearly very very wrong.

This is what seems to me to be the primary problem, as well as the appalling way T-Mobile have handled the whole situation.

[tmobileworker]

Exactly. If balance is shown in april and then taken again then this is worng but thats not what they are trying to do. They are trying to take money that WASN'T taken in April when it should have been.

[timbo_baggins]

Exactly. If balance is shown in april and then taken again then this is worng but thats not what they are trying to do. They are trying to take money that WASN'T taken in April when it should have been.

Quite so, however, according to the OP he has statements showing a debit was made. But the call agent maintained that regardless of this, another debit would be taken.

It would be good to have an update from the OP rather than us just speculating ...

[gadgetnutter]

Surely, if it *was* debited from his account, then it would show to whom?

If it shows a debit to T-Mobile, then regardless of where the error occurred in their payment system..they definitely should not be calling for another payment!

[tmobileworker]

They should not be taking a second payment, if they do then he is entitled to it back. when we got told about the problem at work, there was nothing we could do to stop it.

[pa49]

OK all, OP here,
First opportunity to clarify situation.
My mastercard is prepaid so that money can't be taken if it is not first credited to the cards account. All such payments are therefore made and accounted for at the time of the transaction. My online statement is balanced and I check it after each transaction. As this is the only way of doing it (no paper statements are issued) and online statements are only available for a limited time I can't currently see the audit on the account.
So, I have called the card issuer who have said that they have had a number of similar enquiries and they are processing the requests for info.
They have told me that once a payment has cleared my account then they have no way of telling where it has exactly gone and that by the sound of it it could have ended up in a suspense account at Barclays.
If that is the case then Barclays need to come clean with some information about the missing transactions such as what they did with them and not simply leave it as 'we didn't take it , we'll take it again.'
If you paid cash for an item and then was told that the cash had been lost, would you willingly pay again? I don't think so!
If T-mobile have been paid, far from me being entitled to get back a duplicate payment, T-mobile are not entitled to demand a second payment and if they are all I want is proof that they are.
That seems pretty damned simple to me.

[gadgetnutter]

OK..so if I understand correctly, the money *has* debited your mastercard?

If that is the case, then Barclays are acting on behalf of T-Mobile i.e they are T-Mobile's banker.

It seems incredible that T-Mobile's payment system has malfunctioned and despite your account already being debited, they are demanding another payment, when clearly, it is their responsibility to track down the funds that *their* bankers have lost!!

[scoobystu2]

As OP seems to have clarified the matter I hope the second payment does not take place as poster(s) here seem to confirm this will not happen. But one can have little faith in the execution of this issue.

[pa49]

Now I have the full story-

I have confirmation that my original transaction was authorised and debited from my prepaid mastercard in April '07.
Barclaycard Merchant Services then had 15 days in which to call all the money needed from my card issuer for that days transactions.
Barclaycard Merchant Services failed to do this and the money was re-credited to my account.
I check my account online and print a copy of the statement to keep a record and thus my belief that the amount was paid.
My son uses the mastercard as well in the same way as I do and so I would not have been aware of any re-credit to the account or, if I had, what it was for.
T-mobile took the amount that had not been correctly administered by BMS on 12.10.07. and sent my card into the red by the same amount.
In order to use my card I now have to clear a debit balance caused by BMS.
I now cannot pay my current bill.
I have spoken to CS who have told me that they will refund any charges and that I should wait for the phone account to go overdue and then call their finance department and make an arrangement to deal with the account balance.
For the sake of £42.50 they have jeopardised a bill of £166 for this month.
Words fail me about how this has been handled and I don't see any way to avoid the possibility of it happening again.

[Upside]

Jeez! How ameturish!

If I received a text like that I'd assume that it was a scam!

That takes the mickey!!

[StuBFrost]

I don't see what the problem is with this at all.

The money was never paid out and was re-credited. If you didn't have enough in the account when the money was taken then you (or your son) has spent it on something else.

[gadgetnutter]

pa49..I have sympathised with you through this whole sorry saga..but my sympathy may have been misplaced if I understand events correctly.

Your April payment was authorised and debited from your card
Due to Barclays incompetence, the funds never reached T-Mobile and were subsequently credited back to your card
You never noticed this credit
6 months later T-Mobile advise by text that they are going to call for the money again
They subsequently do so and in so doing a debit balance on your card has resulted in some difficulties for you.

Without doubt T-Mobile have handled this affair appallingly! However, if you do not keep track of what credits and debits are appearing on your card..then surely a degree of responsibility lies with you?

[pa49]

pa49..I have sympathised with you through this whole sorry saga..but my sympathy may have been misplaced if I understand events correctly.

Your April payment was authorised and debited from your card
Due to Barclays incompetence, the funds never reached T-Mobile and were subsequently credited back to your card
You never noticed this credit
6 months later T-Mobile advise by text that they are going to call for the money again
They subsequently do so and in so doing a debit balance on your card has resulted in some difficulties for you.

Without doubt T-Mobile have handled this affair appallingly! However, if you do not keep track of what credits and debits are appearing on your card..then surely a degree of responsibility lies with you?
Hindsight is such a wonderful thing and your point is well taken.
However, were you aware that the banking/card system worked in this way?
And after a rather lengthy call to my card issuer, they too, believe that this was handled in a less than satisfactory manner.
Live and learn?

[hip59]

" if you do not keep track of what credits and debits are appearing on your card..then surely a degree of responsibility lies with you?" I aggree

Lets move on ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ