O2 Staff Please Read!!! - Data Charges

[themakh]

Just a message to any O2 staff on this forum.

Does O2 even know about the problem with their data tariffs.

With only a few months left on my contract I phoned up O2 and was put through to retentions. I was enquiring about future o2 data plans (which they said where not currently in the pipeline). When i asked whether they would be matching t-mobile, three or vodafone (and now orange who have also improved their data tariffs) the retentions lady asked me what the the other data tariffs where. She didnt have a clue about the unlimited (at least massive) data tariffs the competitors where offering.

She tried to sell me 4mg for £5 which i replied that T-mobile where offering unlimited for £7.50 so why on earth would i want 4mg. Then she tried selling me 20mg for £10 to which i replied its a rip off when i can get unlimited for £7.50 a month. I will surely be of to t-mobiles web'n'walk when my contract expires unless o2 sort their data tariffs out, soon.

I just want to ask any o2 staff on this forum can you please let your superiors know that their data tariffs are rubbish (compared to ALL other networks). This is not just my opinion but the opinion of a lot of current o2 and former o2 customers.

[Andyroo]

lets watch them go down the pan, they all need to stay competitive, I did after all leave orange for tmobiles fabulous web n walk

[frazzel]

Everyone is leaving them of late for the same problem!

[themakh]

The only issue is i like the O2 online pay monthly tariffs, the free minutes and free texts allowance are better then most networks, and the signal is reliable.

I dont think O2 even know about the data tariffs of their competiors. Besides the customer base of O2 is the largest in the UK which means they wont care if they loose a few customers because of their data tariffs.

Its only if they start loosing a lot of customers that they'll realise what the problem is. I just hope an employee of O2 reads this and is able to tip them off about where their going wrong ;-)

[Andyroo]

or simply change networks and be done with it

[cj1207]

Of course O2 are aware of the 'other Networks' data packages, however O2 at this time, have no desire to compete in that particular field.

From my experience, very few customers disconnect due to data tariffs, infact very few customers actually use any great amount of data on their mobile.

Sure you'll find a pile of people on here and other such forums who want to use massive amounts of data on their phones, but in general, the 'ordinary' customer wants to use their phone to speak to, or text, others - not to browse the net.

If in the future it becomes apparent that customers are disconnecting in their thousands due to data tariffs then I am quite sure that this strategy may change.

[Andyroo]

but in general, the 'ordinary' customer wants to use their phone to speak to, or text, others - not to browse the net.



This is something that no one can argue with, people still want and still do make voice calls with their mobiles than anything else!

[Planner]

ok, think about this then.

assuming O2, HAVE got the IPhone, and aassuming Apple are pushing for EDGE for it to be used on...

this means O2 will need to provide Data 'tarrifs' for the, what? 500,000 to 750,000 extra people that will want this phone?

data is data.... 2g,3g, edge, gprs, it doesnt matter....

I think things will change ... and i think it will change because of Apple

[Andyroo]

whats the iphone got to do with the price of ****!

we've already established that o2 have rubbish data tarriffs because the vast majority of their customers dont want to use data!

and do o2 even have an edge network? highly unlikely!

[themakh]

well they have a 3g network which is better. What i dont understand is why on earth have i got an xda orbit which supports full internet browsing but im restricted to a few mg of data because of the ridiculus costs.

O2 definetly have not matched their products (mobile phones) with their data services.

I want to use my Xda to stream news and sport headlines from the bbc. i want to have full access to internet. That is the reason i have got an XDA trion and not an ordinary mobile. Wake up O2.

[themakh]

Of course O2 are aware of the 'other Networks' data packages, however O2 at this time, have no desire to compete in that particular field.



Are you sure. When i spoke to one of the retention guys he didnt have a clue about web'n'walk. and could understand why on earth i wanted unlimited data.

I replied paid out hundreds for an XDA trion. They couldnt understand the link between such a phone and data tariffs.

[PeteMc]

Are you sure. When i spoke to one of the retention guys he didnt have a clue about web'n'walk. and could understand why on earth i wanted unlimited data.

I replied paid out hundreds for an XDA trion. They couldnt understand the link between such a phone and data tariffs.

Of course they have a clue about Web n' Walk but probably act ignorant on the phone to avoid talking about it.

[themakh]

Of course they have a clue about Web n' Walk but probably act ignorant on the phone to avoid talking about it.

well they act a little more then ignorant some of the time. Especially when they try to match it with a £5 for 4mg... LOL!!!

[pctech]

This is something that no one can argue with, people still want and still do make voice calls with their mobiles than anything else!

The XDA range is aimed more at the business market I think and I'm sure that O2 design bespoke data tariffs for business customers (a local cab firm I use gives each driver an Orbit preloaded with a bespoke application that allows the driver to be sent job details, accept and clear the job and the owner of the firm is as tight as a duck's butt so I don't think he'd be willing to pay £3/Meg so they must have designed a bespoke tariff for them)

But yes I would agree, Joe and Jane Average use their mobile device more as a phone than a network access device.

[aumz]

well the data tariffs are much better now and it just seems you have been unlucky with the person you spoke to on the phones

7.50 for 200mb and 30 for 3gb
may not seem that much still compared to t-mobile
t-mobile do have a better network for data that is true but using the internet on ur phone or pda/phone how many people are really gonna hit 200mb a month let alone 3gb......a minority not the majority

o2 are working on their edge network....they are aware that they lag behind other networks in the data stakes

[blueharvest]

well the data tariffs are much better now ....7.50 for 200mb

O2WEB is 7.50 for unlimited GPRS usage with a fair usage policy of 200mb, this means that if your usage is persistently over 200mb, o2 will contact you to check that you are not generating artificially inflated traffic and are using GPRS for legitimate means. :)

[mr-mac]

just a thought.... but maybe people don't use data because of the prices... not because they don't want to use it...

I left O2 for this very reason and I warrent a lot of other did as well

John

[blueharvest]

maybe people don't use data because of the prices... not because they don't want to use it...


I personally find unlimited browsing for £7.50 pcm very good value. :)

[mr-mac]

I personally find unlimited browsing for £7.50 pcm very good value. :)

Is there another tarrif available??? because as far as I am aware there is a 200Mb FUP in place?

Also it is for mobile only. I have a PDA (more like a mini laptop) which is much better than a phone for browsing but I am not supposed to use phone as a modem either....

Anyway just wondered if I was missing somthing with you saying it was 7.50 for unlimited browsing?

Thanks

John

[cj1207]

Yes, you need O2 Web Max, £30.00 p/m. There WAS a fair usage policy of 3GB on this, but this is now also 'unlimited', and simply has a permitted use policy.

T&C's :

Generic data terms and conditions

Data usage is measured in kilobytes (KB). 1MB = 1024 Kilobytes (KB), 1024 MB = 1 Gigabyte (GB)
Data usage is rounded to the nearest kilobyte on a daily basis and charges are rounded up to the nearest 1p.
You are billed for the amount of data that travels over the data network. Please note that your bill may include charges for re-sent data packets and packets added to control the flow of data over the network.
The Charges set out within this Charges Schedule do not incorporate data roaming rates which are set out here
To access O2's data services your mobile device must be data compatible and enabled.
All prices shown are for payment by Direct Debit - a different rate may apply if paying by another method.
Access to data services is subject to network coverage.
Connection to a data tariff is subject to status and credit checking.
A Minimum Period of 12 months applies when purchased as a stand alone tariff.

O2 Web Max terms and conditions

The O2 Web Max tariff allows you unlimited use of O2's 3G/GPRS Mobile Data Services for Permitted Uses only. Permitted Uses of O2 Web Max are use of your SIM Card within a handheld mobile device for Internet Browsing and email (excludes BlackBerry email) and use with a Data Card or Modem. Any other use of the O2 Web Max tariff will not be a Permitted Use, including but not limited to:
Instant Messaging,
IP Telephony,
VoIP (e.g. Skype,
Video and TV streaming; and
Slingboxes.

O2 reserves the right to withdraw the O2 Web Max tariff from you at any time if O2 reasonably suspects you of using the service for uses other than the Permitted Uses or abuse of the service, including using an atypical volume of data as compared to normal users of the O2 Web Max tariff, which will normally be less than 3GB of usage within a one month bill cycle (termed "fair usage").

O2 will contact you before O2 Web Max is withdrawn or upgraded. If for any reason contact is not possible then O2 may temporarily bar the service until contact can be made. In the event that O2 withdraws the O2 Web Max tariff, O2 is not obliged to offer any alternative replacement service. If O2 determines that you may upgrade to an alternative tariff which is more appropriate for your requirements then, if you consent, O2 will transfer you to the alternative service as soon as is reasonably practicable after you advise O2 that this is what you wish to do.

In these terms the expression "you" shall mean the Customer, and your shall be interpreted accordingly.

[mr-mac]

Yep and that brings me back to first point of price... :)

[cj1207]

Yep, which brings be back to my point made months ago:

From my experience, very few customers disconnect due to data tariffs, infact very few customers actually use any great amount of data on their mobile.

Sure you'll find a pile of people on here and other such forums who want to use massive amounts of data on their phones, but in general, the 'ordinary' customer wants to use their phone to speak to, or text, others - not to browse the net.

I still firmly believe that O2 is not THAT interested in bringing shed-loads of mobile data to the masses, albeit more interested than they were previously. But, it's there - however if you want it, you'll need to pay for it.

At the end of the day, these are consumer contracts we're talking about - the permitted uses should be more than enough for Joe Average. High data usage is, in general, for business use, and as such comes with a business-related price tag !

:)

[mr-mac]

Yep, which brings be back to my point made months ago:



I still firmly believe that O2 is not THAT interested in bringing shed-loads of mobile data to the masses, albeit more interested than they were previously. But, it's there - however if you want it, you'll need to pay for it.

At the end of the day, these are consumer contracts we're talking about - the permitted uses should be more than enough for Joe Average. High data usage is, in general, for business use, and as such comes with a business-related price tag !

:)

Doesn't seem to be for the other networks though...

I am sure O2 will eventually follow.. There are more and more consumer uses of data every day...

It is why I left O2 in the bad old day of £'s per Meg...

Will be coming back shortly but it is purely for reception/free 02-02 calls but if T-mobile or 3 sort reception issues at my work I will be off again at end of contract.

John

[Leii]

Q1 now includes unlitmited data usage, either as a free bolt on or a max charge of £1 per day.

[mrnemo]

i'm an o2 staff worker and have been for some while....

o2 have recently realised that data plays a huge place within the market we all had the customer plan 2 briefing, and o2 have realised they they havent in kept with the market..

they are launching great new tariffs for data as well as their own mobile b/b so i wouldnt worry to much..

[re:charge]

how on earth could o2 not be aware of what's going on around them? would've thought it was their business to know that! the competitors have been offering better data plans for years!... and they sell these devices, some of them payg, so they're well aware of the functions of their phones!?

sorry i don't buy it. it smacks of an attitude of "if you don't like it, you know where the door is*". not good business sense. i get the distinct impression they don't really care for data usage & want to make a name for themselves with call plans (which are very good). so why bother selling devices that do more than call & text? yeah it's a phone first but unlocking is easy.

*unless you're on contract, in which case, good luck you'll need it

[Planner]

ok lets put it this way.

over 95% of revenue on mobile phones is NON DATA. that pretty much explains the very good voice tariffs i would imagine.

and as for the competitors offering better data plans.. yes, they have... did you also know they lose money doing it??

sound financial sense if you ask me..

seems like the people on these forums want everything without wanting to pay for it... well, sorry but that doesnt pay my wages.. and if you want my expertise in designing and running networks and making them actually work like you want them too, im afraid i need to be paid, as do the countless others who do it... add to that the people who want UK only call centers because they dont understand foreign ones, well, that means you need to pay people five quid odd an hour rather than a fiver a week for the foreign ones...

supply and demand... the demand isnt there for data, no matter what your own personnal requirements are..

[re:charge]

so o2 should go back to selling basic phones that just make calls & SMS. why have a GPRS, EDGE or 3g network, remind me again?

no one said anything about wanting everything but not paying for it - what we are saying is hurry up with what we want & we will pay, as o2 seem to be lagging behind it's competitors.

[pctech]

To be fair I think it is how much o2 charge for data that is main issue here.

All you can eat data is a thing of the past as the fixed networks and their customers are finding out due to the costs involved in moving the data across the networks (ensuring enough capacity to meet demand, costs of peering connections which are often charged on the basis of how much data moves through the ports), etc.

As a minimal data user myself I personally would be prepared to pay around £1 or 1.50/meg to browse the odd page or watch the odd stream, £3/Meg does in all fairness seem a tad steep Planner....

I don't dispute that Brown robbed the operators blind over the licences and of course there's the cost of the kit but surely there is some margin to make a profit while reducing the charges a bit.


In reality though the operators should have just said no during the auctions, if they had done this then H.M. treasury wouldn't have been able to get away with the great rip off that was the 3G licence auctions, no bidders = no auction, it wasn't like compniaes were queuing up to buy spectrum to build 3G networks now was it?


Personally I will stick with O2 as generally their service (both as a mobile and fixed broadband provider ) is good and in my experience the customer service is excellent but while I agree that the days of huge data allowances are at an end, O2 should look at its Pay as you use data charges.

[Planner]

I thought O2 had these 7.50 all in rates now? (not really up on tarifs)

the main problem with data, is the majority dont want it... so that means, if you have to spend £100,000,000 upgrading your network to cope with it, then somebody has to pay for it... BUT apparently NOT the customers... (HSDPA wasnt available when the networks were built btw)

as I have said, only 5% of revenue comes from non text data, when you then add to that the fact that 90% of data is generated by 10% of those customers who use it... then you start to see how little money is actually made from data (at the moment)

the problem here is, when you are owned by another company, you cant just eat up the cost to upgrade without your parents permission.. same as Orange, same as T-Mobile.. the former has had years of underinvestment, the latter initially was cash strapped, but the parent realised and has started pumping money into them.

and yes, the companies were queueing up to buy the licences... its just a lot of them dropped out after the first round when it went above a billion (such as Virgin)

[pctech]

perhaps if the costs were lower and there were some compelling services such as mobile TV being offered then I'm sure were more people might use data and this in turn would drive up ARPU so yes they might lose money to begin with and with my business hat on I'd say they probably shouldn't offer inclusive data but if they lowered the costs I'm sure the services would gain some traction fairly quickly.

I mean, O2 has over 18 million customers so surely that would justify taking a risk on it?

[re:charge]

ok ok, maybe i over estimate the amount of people using data, & i think possibly o2 under estimate the amount of people wanting to use it... this comes down to marketing AND the services provided, which on o2, is often less than competitors. it is the extra features of these phones that are the selling points. phones are not just phones anymore, & i do feel o2 could do more for themselves by reaching out to that other 95% (i personally am sceptical of this figure though, everyone i know uses data in some manner, however it is still early days for most people). everyone wants the latest phone & pretty sure they'd want to use the features... gold or silver 'fashion phones' with less features are much coveted but waaaay more expensive.

the £7.50 a month is a good deal, though many people are unaware of it... like i said, just a matter of marketing & maybe this is deliberate, you don't want everyone overloading the network for the hell of it!

i like o2 for it's signal but getting rebates off my top ups i find quaint & amusing... it's nice, yeah, but if moneys the issue with o2 why keep giving money back?

sorry to repeat myself but why sell 3g phones for use on a data network if only 5% of people use it?

[pctech]

re:charge

If I may refer you to another post made by myself on an issue that overlaps with this one

http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showpost.php?p=374573&postcount=84

[browny]

lets watch them go down the pan, they all need to stay competitive, I did after all leave orange for tmobiles fabulous web n walk

The main reason for O2 bringing out the unlimited data option later than most other Networks is the same reason for the home BB and the new Mobile BB.

O2 Wants to see how the other networks do it, what they get right, what they get wrong. Then O2 can build on what other networks have done and make it better and improving it further.

I think this has worked really well as far as the unlimited data bolt ona dn home BB, I have hardly no customers disputing the services and are very happy with them.

As O2 stand it doesn't want to run into the new market of data all guns blazing! It would rather get it right first time, even if that means waiting for a few months.

[sputnike]

O2 is being as fast as it can rolling out their 3.5g (HSDPA) and HSUPA networks... Unlimited data on your phone (within fair usage) for £7.50 a month as a bolt on is a great offer as it includes the HSDPA.

Not to mention the Mobile Broadband is unlimited (no overage charges) until October 21st, and comes with The Cloud wifi (which cross works with BT Openzone) for your laptop.

[re:charge]

yep, it's looking better now. thanks to apple iphone. found it strange that o2 of all people, have this device exclusively. but hey, if it finally opens doors to PPC & laptop users who've been waiting in the wings, it's all good :)