The sixteen hour labour thread

[RevdKathy]

No, I don't have an N95 yet. But I thought I'd start this thead for people as they get their new baby. This is where you rush in, tell us what you bought and whether you feel you got a bargain (don't tell us what you paid in case we paid more)

Then crack open a bottle of beer/wine/vodka/dandelion and burdock or whatever you use to celebrate, plug the new baby in to charge... and wait 16 hours.

So here is a place to waste 16 hours. We will recommend things you can do: dig the garden, take up yoga, study the finer points of test cricket (which takes even longer than 16 hours!) And discuss things you can usefully do while you're in labour. Like sort out your mp3s. Rip your dvd collection to the right size, compile a new list of your favourite websites from your browser...

So what are you doing for the next 16 hours?

[DeniseR]

Waiting for the nice bloke to ring me from talk to me on monday to see if I can have mine then I got to wait another 16 hours but probably won't lol

[bjh_101]

This is a great idea for a thread. A bit of fun and games it what we need. Although it's more likely to resort to hair pulling and trantums as the time ticks on. lol.

[andrew99]

I never have the patience to last the whole time. The only time it was okay was when I upgraded from a 7610 to an n70, they had the same battery so no guilt when I swapped the battery and started playing.
So usually I plug it into my desk at work, and then start playing whilst it charges...

[RevdKathy]

I didn't get home in time to ring TalkTo Me. Thought I'd give them a call tomorrow morning. The good news is my hourse guest is as big a geekess as me - she won't begrudge me going to fetch it!

[bjh_101]

I never have the patience to last the whole time. The only time it was okay was when I upgraded from a 7610 to an n70, they had the same battery so no guilt when I swapped the battery and started playing.
So usually I plug it into my desk at work, and then start playing whilst it charges...

Well you won't have to this year... you've got this thread to keep you occupied. We will attempt to come up with things to do while you wait...

[iguanapunk]

Those 16 hours for me would be spent keeping myself busy so i'll download some movies that require my full attention. Also I will sleep, and go to work, and eat and watch more films.

[bjh_101]

Ok then... Challenge number one...

Have a look at as many of my Nokia YouTube videos as you can.
http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/search.php?searchid=568008
(Sorry, a search for N95 doesn't appear to work, so this is just a search for all my Nokia threads)

[RevdKathy]

I watched a fistful of those last week to keep from biting my fingernails to the quick. By the time I reach the 16 hours, i shall look like the Venus do Milo.

Looking for help with putting a bit of dvd onto the n95. Imtoo dvd ripper doesn't have 3gp, and Intoo mpeg encoder collects dvd in 176x144, which seems a bit small. Suggestions?

[Locoblade]

I did some of this to rip a snowboarding tutorial DVD onto my N70 for watching on the plane, and I think I used a freeware app made by eRightSoft called "Super (http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html)". Can't be 100% sure though as I have several of these type of apps installed on my laptop and I cant be certain which one I used! :rolleyes:

[RevdKathy]

How big a file does a 1 hour of DVD work out at?

Couple more suggestions for the 16 hours: with my current phone I've enjoyed having a range of themes and screensavers for different seasons and festivals. Is there a theme maker that will be compatible with the N95? Anyone like to make a 'spring' theme?

Or: Do you name your phone? You have 16 hours to decide what to call your new baby. (I find naming it reduces the risk of losing it)

[iguanapunk]

Is there a theme maker that will be compatible with the N95? Anyone like to make a 'spring' theme?


There's already a theme available on the bigpockets website.

[RevdKathy]

Can't find that -but there's a site called 'ownskin' which claims to have themes for the N95. Why don't I believe them?

[iguanapunk]

Can't find that -but there's a site called 'ownskin' which claims to have themes for the N95. Why don't I believe them?

http://www.greatpockets.com/index.php

and it's on the big pockets page right at the bottom in dark grey text, quite unoticable.

[RevdKathy]

Ahhh - I googled bigpockets and got something quite different! :D

[Locoblade]

How big a file does a 1 hour of DVD work out at?



I only ripped about 25 minutes but in MP4 format using a suitable resolution for my N70 it created a 45Mb file, so Id expect maybe 150-200Mb for an hour at a higher res for optimum viewing on an N95.

[bavlondon]

You only need 320 by 240 size for the n95. Around 250mb for a full length film is around right.

[Waynesters]

ER............Charge it for 16 hours?.......why? lol
you all must be mad, im gonna plug it in, turn it on, and then after leaving it on charge for an hour or 2, wont it flash up "Battery Full" as normal ?
then it`s time to play! lol

[Locoblade]

You only need 320 by 240 size for the n95. Around 250mb for a full length film is around right.

Yep, the N95 is still higher than the N70 resolution though (176x208) which is why I mentioned it. You could probably also play around with the audio bitrates etc to optimise the file size if it became a problem, I just left it with the defaults.

[RevdKathy]

I ripped some bits of DVD using Super and it is. I'm just hoping they'll play nicely on the N95.

In other news, my baby will be here Tuesday, and the nokia store kindly say they will charge it for me, as they expect it Monday evening. Then I can get to play straight away! I think he's going to be called 'Godot'.

[andrew99]

I think he's going to be called 'Godot'.

As in 'Waiting for...'? Very cute.

[paperflowers]

I've got to wait until 2am for my 16 hours to be up :( :( :(

*needs straight jacket*

[buckeye]

I've got to wait until 2am for my 16 hours to be up :( :( :(

*needs straight jacket*

:eek: Are you keeping it switched on whilst charging?

[Locoblade]

I've got to wait until 2am for my 16 hours to be up :( :( :(

*needs straight jacket*

Are you not planning to start charging it until 10am then? :D

[paperflowers]

:eek: Are you keeping it switched on whilst charging?

It's switched off at the moment - i'm so tempted just to use it now! Haha :D

Edit: I'm gonna leave it on charge until I go out this evening - then I can take some pictures and see what the pictures are like whilst in a club :D

[ddk121]

Do you have too charge it for 16 hours? Or can you just leave it on charge until it says 'battery full'?

[Kevon]

I think 16 hours is highly recommended to say the least

[ddk121]

Can I use my phone when I'm charging it for the 16 hours?

[frolicols]

I was hoping I'd get mine delivered before 4pm today so I can leave it in the office charging overnight. That way I'm not tempted to turn it on before tomorrow!

In the mean time, I'm going to spend my 16 hours wallowing in the past. A good go through www.retrojunk.com to amuse myself with various intros of 80s cartoons, and then play some UFO: Enemy Unknown.

I played that game a good two years before I got my first Alcatel Brick on Voda PAYG!!!

[Locoblade]

Personally Im not convinced about the need to charge the battery for 16 hours initially, it doesn't say its needed in the getting started part of the N95 manual, and Li Ion / Li Polymer batteries have in-built safety circuitry to limit the amount of charge they can take anyway, so I don't see how leaving it on for that amount of time when it says its full after a couple of hours is actually going to do anything. From what I understand it might take a few charges to get to absolute full capacity though.

[Marwood]

I am utterly convinced!
Have a search, starting with the N80 and battery life etc.

Labour began at 2 PM today.
Only dialated a few CMs at the moment.
Have the gas and air on standby!

"I have it, It is engendered.
Hell and night must bring this monstrous birth
To the world's light." (Iago in 'Othello').

M

[hunt.trophy]

So who agrees with Locoblade re: not having to charge it for 16 hours? I must say, it sounds a lot less painful...

[bjh_101]

I am currently in labour! lol

Although its probably a good thing, because I've got a university project to do by thur, and if i play with the phone it wont be getting done!!!

I am however also not taking the risk. I think showing the battery who is boss from the start will only cause it to have more respect for you in future. lol.

[Locoblade]

Marwood, I just did a search as suggested and the first thread I came across was a guy who had poor battery life on his N80, and that was despite having always done 16 hour charges from new, and despite having two different batteries (the original and a higher capacity one). Im not saying the long charge caused his problems but it does highlight the fact that there are a lot of variables involved in battery life from one user to another and even one phone/battery to another, so it could just be that some simply don't last as long as others regardless of what you do with them.

The thread also contained a fair bit of mis-information regarding memory effect and the need to deep discharge the battery from the same people who were recommending a 16 hour charge as a must, so it doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the theory.

I do agree though that maybe the battery isnt necessarily 100% full when the phone says full, so its probably worthwhile leaving it on an overnight charge if you want to maximise your run time, but the religious 16 hour thing where people are all but advised not to switch their phone on until exactly 16 hours on charge otherwise their battery will die a sorry death all seems to completely conflict with advice on Li-Pol / Li-Ion charging that can be found freely on the internet, such as......

Lithium-ion is a very clean system and does not need priming as nickel-based batteries do. The 1st charge is no different to the 5th or the 50th charge. Stickers instructing to charge the battery for 8 hours or more for the first time may be a leftover from the nickel battery days.

"BatteryUniversity" website (http://www.batteryuniversity.com/print-partone-12.htm)

cheers

Chris

[jonnyw2k]

Now i am confused will 16hours
1. be good for the battery
2. Make no difference from a normal full charge
3. Damage the battery

but the lady did tell ma mate in CPW when she bought her nokia 6611 to charge it fully overnite or else the battery wont hold its charge propperly.

[bjh_101]

A long charge wont damage it. I can only see that it will have a good or no effect. In which case I am taking the principle - better to be safe than sorry!

Although regarding my charging needs, I am going to take the lovely small charger that come with it to uni etc.
Keep the N80 charger by my bed.
Keep the old 7610 charger (with N80 adapter) at my desk.
And I might invest in a charge charger. Anyone know the best place to get a branded one cheaply?

[jonnyw2k]

a charge charger?

[bjh_101]

a charge charger?

Indeed :o lol.

*Car charger.

[jonnyw2k]

Lol u seen that USB charger? cant remeber were i saw it but it was basically a big battery that u cud charge then carry round then charge anything else off it. IE mp3 playas, phones, other batterys :P

[Locoblade]

Hi Jonny

Its certainly not bad for the battery because the batteries have limiting circuitry in them that prevent the possiblity of overcharging however long you leave it charging for, so if you're undecided and can bear the wait, then by all means give it a long charge, but from everything Ive read previously regarding Lithium based batteries there's no benefit to doing overly long initial charges, and other than circumstantial evidence on here, Ive not seen anything to prove otherwise.

[jonnyw2k]

what about 10hours? (turned off?)

[bjh_101]

what about 10hours? (turned off?)

If thats all you can bear then go for it. Sure its better than nothing.

I also agree that there is no hard and fast answer. But I'm just holding out for a full charge (+overnight)

[jonnyw2k]

http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=2725&t_mode=des thats the USB battery thing

# Impressive 3400 mAH storage (recharge your devices several times)
# Powerful 5v, 700mA output (enough for even the most power-hungry mobile devices)

wud that give 16hours charge?

[jonnyw2k]

actually just done the maths 3400/700 = aprox 5hours(4 and 6/7)

[bjh_101]

http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=2725&t_mode=des thats the USB battery thing

# Impressive 3400 mAH storage (recharge your devices several times)
# Powerful 5v, 700mA output (enough for even the most power-hungry mobile devices)

wud that give 16hours charge?

That looks cool.
However apart from the car - I have a wire for everywhere else. So would be a bit of a waste of money at the moment i think.

Would be great for things like festivals etc though.

[Locoblade]

Not sure its any good for the N95 though as I don't believe you can charge the N95 through the USB port, so it would need a USB > Nokia charger adapter at least?

[bjh_101]

Not sure its any good for the N95 though as I don't believe you can charge the N95 through the USB port, so it would need a USB > Nokia charger adapter at least?

It comes with one.

[Locoblade]

Cool, I missed that bit :)

[jonnyw2k]

arggg i got some advert running somewere with rainforest sounds and it sounds like im sat in a rainforest lol quite relaxing but very annoying. neway yeh im sure u can get an in car charger for that leave that plugged in in ur car then plug ur n95 into that wen ur in the car that way if u eva go on holiday somewere and u get a flat battery on ur fone go to drive home and ur car doesnt start due to a flat batery atleast u can charge ur fone to ring the breakdown company (and ull have gps to tell them were uve broken down lol) (see how a n95 can turn a nightmare situation into a heavenly experience lol)

[bjh_101]

arggg i got some advert running somewere with rainforest sounds and it sounds like im sat in a rainforest lol quite relaxing but very annoying. neway yeh im sure u can get an in car charger for that leave that plugged in in ur car then plug ur n95 into that wen ur in the car that way if u eva go on holiday somewere and u get a flat battery on ur fone go to drive home and ur car doesnt start due to a flat batery atleast u can charge ur fone to ring the breakdown company (and ull have gps to tell them were uve broken down lol) (see how a n95 can turn a nightmare situation into a heavenly experience lol)

And while your waiting for them to arrive you can play SystemRush and watch TV. :D

[Marwood]

Yep, has divided opinion.
There is a link I can't find but here is some lighter reading:
http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?t=42072&highlight=iRiver
http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?t=40424&highlight=N80+Baterry+Life
http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?t=41329&highlight=N80+Baterry+Life
http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?t=41280&highlight=Battery+life+N80
M

[jonnyw2k]

systemrush OOOOO Web n Walk is added to ma contract uhmmm i think i may go againt t-mobiles fair usage policy lol i am gonna be a data addict lol found the rain forrest it was that greatestpockets thing where hes in the park

ohh Marwood a stopped clock tells the right time 24 (or 48) times a day depending if u just change the timezone its in :P

anyway back on topic doesnt a battery come with some initial charge so shud i turn it on to drain this initial charge then turn off charge for 16 hours turn on use as normal then recharge for another 16hours b4 playing till ma hearts content

[Locoblade]

Hi Marwood,

Every expert documentation you'll find on Li-Ion / Li-Pol batteries completely contradicts the theory you've been using to explain this phenomenon in most of the threads you've linked to, Li-Ion / Li-Pol do not need conditioning and do not suffer from memory effect, so with with all due respect that is bound to make anyone skeptical unless you're a Professor in battery technology and know something they don't!

If longer battery life does come as a result of a discharge and extended re-charge though then the only thing I think it could be attributed to is mentioned in the above document I linked to where it says...

Unlike nickel and lead-based batteries, a new lithium-ion pack does not need cycling through charging and discharging. Priming will make little difference because the maximum capacity of lithium-ion is available right from the beginning. Neither does a full discharge improve the capacity of a faded pack. However, a full discharge/charge will reset the digital circuit of a 'smart' battery to improve the state-of-charge estimation


I guess it's possible that the circuitry on some phones / batteries isn't as accurate as others or drifts out of calibration over time thinking the battery is full when it's not, so a full discharge / recharge resets this so allowing a fuller charge before the circuitry puts a stop to the charging process.

Chris

[bjh_101]

Is it really worth arguing about it?

Just charge your phone as you want to....

[jonnyw2k]

just out of intrest how much is a replacement battery? and we all have to sleep anyway so if battery life gets that bad just put it on charge whilst ur asleep lol

[Locoblade]

Im not arguing, I just like to question things and find out the facts behind it rather than simply accept as gospel when sometimes they turn out not to be true :)

...and yep Jonny, a battery currently sells for about £20 but will probably drop to nearer a tenner within a few months judging by other battery prices, so it's not a huge problem even if you completely screwed the battery somehow.

[hunt.trophy]

This thread is a facinating read... I wish I knew I enough to contradict you all, but I don't... So I have to sift through the conjectur and decide what is fact for myself...

Just to stir the pot a little more...

On the first charge, assuming you all agree a long charge is good or at least not harmful, would you leave the phone off? Or can you switch it on and play around with it while it charges?

Locoblade, very interested to hear what you have to say... Please be detailed.

Thanks guys.

[bjh_101]

I played with my N80 during first charge. Didn't seem any problem. I am not playing with the N95 though. (Mainly becuase i've got a second one to play with until it's returned, and secondly because I have got uni which I must not be distracted from until thur - hasn't worked so far though... :rolleyes: )

[Marwood]

Post 701, a little earlier than expected! LOL
Locoblade,
Many thanks for you thoughts. I can't get into an argument with you because I'm not in an area of expertise and my theory is merely based on what I have been told by others, who may indeed may not be experts in this field themselves. I simply don't know enough about the construction of batteries or their opperational 'quirks' to go further than what seems to work annecdotally at the very least.

Indeed, I am a bit lost as to what we are actually debating here....the specifics. (my fault not yours) I'm tired because my son won't/can't sleep at the moment so may not be following everything as I should. Hence the following may not clarify things at all, but I can't resist some kind of pontification! LOL

I am a sceptic by nature and always ready to change what I think.

Clearly there is a psychological factor here. I feel comfortable with the system I use to 'condition' a battery and this stems, I suppose, from the over learnt conditioning and connections in my own brain that say to me that batteries do have a memory. They need to be shown their potential before releasing it on a consistant basis. Personal psychology is an interesting area and I come at things a bit creatively.....without forgetting the need for the empirical however.

I wouldn't say I was dogmatic but, lets take a brand new car as a metaphor.

I have a brand new car.....(yes it has a CD playa 'Feeder' fans). It's potentially quick and reliable......sub 7 secs 0-60, wins alot of awards etc.

Conventional (and 'overlearnt' from my dad) wisdom suggests I "run it in", condition it if you like before I release its full potential. However, my dealer who knows alot about cars tells me not to worry about that........don't need to on these "Modern cars". However, the handbook tells me, gives me specific instructions on how to run it in, stating its importance. I then check out a forum relating to my car and read a thread on 'running in'. In it is a link to a theory that suggests It is better to hammer the car from the off to maintain reliability and release performance. Pictures provide evidence that the 'O-Ring' seals are only made good if 'sealed' properly when the car is first driven and driven hard. If this is not done then, the engineer claims the damage has already been done. Another member, in an unrelated thread finds such a proposition baffling, having spent his life working on tollerances in car engines.

A minefield.

I Suppose it does come down to the psychological, the what you feel most comfortable with factor again.

I am happier hammering the battery. Nokia SCs (or mine at least) give this as their first port of call when they get a customer moaning about battery. They simply tell them to try the 16hrx3 charge cycle.

As for the vRS....I'm going to do what the handbook tells me to do. Then when it breaks down.....I can say I did my best to do what the car manufacturer wanted me to do especially with regard to the warrenty.

I am not a battery expert.....but if batteries do have memories...oh the stories they could tell. LOL!

No worries Locoblade, at least you said what you thought honestly and politely and it's hard to debate sometimes when the person isn't sitting in front of you.

Cheers,
M

[jonnyw2k]

post 701 is that a reply to a different thread that u thought wud be relevant hear or did the post man bring ur phone and 7:01am

[Marwood]

No jonny,
That was my 701st post. this is my 702nd post :)
M

[Locoblade]

Post 701, a little earlier than expected! LOL

No worries Locoblade, at least you said what you thought honestly and politely and it's hard to debate sometimes when the person isn't sitting in front of you.

Cheers,
M

Yep completely agree, on forums without the spoken word and without seeing the person face to face its often very hard to disagree or to question someone's logic without appearing confrontational or argumentative which wasn't the intention at all :)

As to the car analogy, thats another one of my pet topics (I built a bike engine'd kit car from scratch that does 0-100mph in ~9 seconds :D) so we won't get onto the merits or otherwise of running the car in. :D

cheers

Chris

[MikeBee]

the N95 has a lithium ion battery. these batteries do not need conditioning and do not have memory like older nickel-cadmium batteries or similar.

if you understand the technology then it is perfectly acceptable to charge until the phone says 'battery full' and then off you go. this 16 hour charge is a leftover from the olden days.

[glenrover]

Interesting stuff!
I always thought u had to do the deep-charging (just learned the term!) to maximise the battery life. Seems thats completely wrong and will actually do more harm to your battery:

"The problem with deep cycling is that it seems to actually ruin most batteries. A few years ago, I read a whitepaper from a battery manufacturer that provided charts and other detailed scientific studies to show that it is best never to take a battery below about 50% of full charge. In fact, the lower you go below that, the more you will damage your batteries and shorten their lifespan."
http://www.rebol.com/article/0034.html

"Unlike Ni-Cd batteries, lithium-ion batteries should be charged early and often. However, if they are not used for a longer time, they should be brought to a charge level of around 40%. Lithium-ion batteries should never be "deep-cycled" like Ni-Cd batteries."
"Lithium-ion batteries should never be depleted to empty (0%)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery

A lithium-ion battery provides 300-500 discharge/charge cycles. The battery prefers a partial rather than a full discharge. Frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible. Instead, charge the battery more often or use a larger battery. There is no concern of memory when applying unscheduled charges.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

[bavlondon]

Thats reassuring. In all honesty ive always used it right out of the box out of sheer excitment and just charged it every night.

After a few months if you think the batteries dying a new one doesnt cost much.

[GarEyn]

I've never waited 16 hours and have never seen poor battery performance as a result.

Got my replacement N95 today. Once it siad fully charged, I disconnected it.

[Goons]

the N95 has a lithium ion battery. these batteries do not need conditioning and do not have memory like older nickel-cadmium batteries or similar.

if you understand the technology then it is perfectly acceptable to charge until the phone says 'battery full' and then off you go. this 16 hour charge is a leftover from the olden days.

Thank God I reas this-Means I can play with it straight away when it gets here today!

[nutter426]

Since the manual doesn't say to charge for 16 hours, i didnt, and at home I get 3 hours battery life, but i think that has something to do with the wireless LAN usage.
Away from home it seems to be ok... when it doesn't crash.
Am thinking I might need to call T-Mobile to get them to swap it :(

[bavlondon]

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5A.htm

Some more battery reading for you to argue about hehe

The memorable quotes that are probably relevant to the N95 are:

"excessive charge rate and extreme load conditions have a negative effect on battery life" ie: no 16 hour charging needed it will make it worse

"Do not discharge lithium-ion too deeply. Instead, charge it frequently. Lithium-ion does not have memory problems like nickel-cadmium batteries. No deep discharges are needed for conditioning" ie: completley charging and discharging it will make it worse

"Not only does a lithium-ion battery live longer with a slower charge rate; moderate discharge rates also help"

[bjh_101]

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5A.htm

Some more battery reading for you to argue about hehe

The memorable quotes that are probably relevant to the N95 are:

"excessive charge rate and extreme load conditions have a negative effect on battery life" ie: no 16 hour charging needed it will make it worse

"Do not discharge lithium-ion too deeply. Instead, charge it frequently. Lithium-ion does not have memory problems like nickel-cadmium batteries. No deep discharges are needed for conditioning" ie: completley charging and discharging it will make it worse

"Not only does a lithium-ion battery live longer with a slower charge rate; moderate discharge rates also help"

All those seem to point to doom on N95 anyway. I think you can call the phone an "excessive load" lol

[bavlondon]

How do you mean "point to doom"?

[bjh_101]

How do you mean "point to doom"?

I mean, that it says:

"extreme load conditions have a negative effect on battery life"
and
"moderate discharge rates also help"

The N95 does neither of those things!

[bavlondon]

Im not an expert on batteries and havent really read through that whole site but could "extreme load conditions" mean over charging the phone when its already indicating its full? (as in charging for 16 hours)

As for moderate discharge well with GPS and WIFI thats always going to be hard depending on how feature hungry you are in day to day use but on the whole can vary from person to person.

[bjh_101]

Im not an expert on batteries and havent really read through that whole site but could "extreme load conditions" mean over charging the phone when its already indicating its full? (as in charging for 16 hours)

As for moderate discharge well with GPS and WIFI thats always going to be hard depending on how feature hungry you are in day to day use but on the whole can vary from person to person.

No, excessive load doesn't mean charging.
But this does: "excessive charge rate". which implies that the old Nokia slow chargers would be better than these new speedy ones.

You can't overcharge the battery as there is a protection circuit on the battery because Li-Ion's will be damaged by overcharging. Therefore this protection circuitry is actually built into the battery to prevent this. (However, cheap battery may not have this protection)

When the phone reports it as full it is about 80% full. The other 20% is trickle charged over many hours. That is why overnight charges will always make the battey last longer the following day that if you remove it when it says battery full.

[bavlondon]

Despite that ive never gone through any discharge and charge process or charged the phone 1st time for longer than it takes to say battery full and ive never had any problems.

I think people are worrying too much. At the end of the day this is a top spec phone with an average battery so we shouldnt be expecting it to last for more than a day and a half. I got 2 and 3/4 days and that was on GSM, using mp3 player, watching a few videos (including 1 1/2 episodes of Heros) as well as taking some pics + 5 mins or so of surfing on wifi.

[RevdKathy]

Mine was not charged for 16 hours. It was filled, and emptied to 'beep' a couple of times. Now I top it off daily and I'm only using about the top 15% despite wifi, calls, texts, reading etc. What's the problem?