Do V'fone Record All Call?

[*Danielle*]

I was misinformed about Vodafone passport therefore leading to a huge bill that I cant afford to pay. I would like a copy of the call that I made as I was told that all calls are recorded by law but I dont know if this is right.

Any advice please?

[DaveC]

There may well be a copy of the call but you will need to know the date and time.
How were you misinformed exactly?

[*Danielle*]

Hi Dave and thanks for the reply.

Its a bit of a long story but my boyfriend has been working away and before he did I rang Vodafone to check if the countries he was going to would be covered by Vodafone passport. I was told yes but then a couple of weeks later I had a phone call to say he had high usage on his account because of the international calls. I explained about me ringing before hand to check and they said they had asked the lady that I spoke to and she had said she didnt give me that information. I know the date and time of the call and am in the process of writing the letter of complaint because as it stands I apparently owe them about £1500. I also have an appointment with a debt adviser tomorrow to see which way I can pay this if at all as their terms are only over a maximum of 6 months which I just cant afford.

Phew, told you it was long.....

[DaveC]

Just a thought - it may be where there is some confusion.
Although a country may be covered by Vodafone Passport the network your boyfriend was using may not. The call has to be on one of the 'partner' networks.
http://www.abroad.vodafone.co.uk/index.cfm?do=cost.passport&me=a1&nu=1&le=1&business=true&sn=s6

First call is to check your bills as they should list the networks being used.
Also, don't forget, even on passport, that each call (in and out) is going to cost around 70p even if they last a few seconds, so they can add up, Ok not to £1500 but it can be a sizeable sum over a period of time.

Any roaming of more than a week and you are certainly better off with a local sim, or at least an international roaming one like United Mobile

[*Danielle*]

When they rang me to say about the high usage they said that the carribbean wasnt covered at all which isnt what I was told in the first place by this lady back in October. And yes, I already knew about the 75p connection fee, incoming and outgoing. They also told me about the automatic search for networks because when he was in Germany he was using a network in Norway which isnt covered by passport. So basically its been a right balls up although I thought I was being a good customer and ringing to check stuff up before he went away. I'm very dissapointed in Vodafone and really dont want to use them anymore and cant wait to get out of my contract :(

[GC27vf]

Hi Danielle,

I work for Vodafone and I'm sorry to hear of the problems you've had. Some calls are recorded, randomly, for training purposes. Advisers are also trained to make written notes on your account after each call, email or letter received. So that Vodafone can look into this fully for you I'd recommend that you contact our customer services email team by going to www.vodafone.co.uk, selecting 'contact us' then 'email'. If you leave the short-code FIT135 in the body of your email, along with a full write up including dates, times (even a link to this thread if you wish), this will route through to somebody who'll be able to investigate further.

[spartan73]

let me know if u have any joy with this? is not drop me a email and i'll have a look at your account see if we can get it sorted out.

[Stu-]

As an Ex VF Staff member, I often came across these calls and unfortunatley 9 times out of 10, The customer made the story up.. Not saying you have, But sometimes I was getting messages back saying "You told the customer that so and so country works on Passport, Can you contact them back"
I knew for a fact that I had told them the right information as I said it exactly the same to every customer I spoke to, So strange how 1 out of 100 came back saying that

I think before anyone goes abroard they should check all terms and conditions of using the phone abroard or otherwise naturally there are going to be done over by large call charges!

[*Danielle*]

Well, that may be the case most of the time but as I say in my letter when my responses were "Ooh great" and "Fantastic" if I had misheard the lady then she sohould have corrected me then.

This is what I emailed to vodafone

Dear Vodafone

I am writing to complain about information that was given to me incorrectly and resulting in me being billed for phone calls that should have been taken out of my contracted inclusive minutes.

On the 30th October at 5.43pm I rang to check whether I had Vodafone passport on my contract and whether the countries I wanted my boyfriend to use the phone in were covered by this. I said to the lady that I spoke to that my phone would be used in the Caribbean and told her the countries. She confirmed that passport was ok in those countries and I was very pleased and then that was the end of the phone call.

A couple of weeks later I had a phone call saying that there was high usage on my phone and to date the bill was over £400 for October and the unbilled calls were so far in November were over £300. I explained that I had rung Vodafone beforehand to check about passport and was told that it was available in the countries. Customer services said that this will be investigated and that they would have to confirm with the lady that I spoke to on the 30th. They apparently asked the lady that I spoke to (Kim I think) if in fact she had informed me of this which she said no. I don’t understand how she can remember one specific phone call a couple of weeks previous out of hundreds that she must have dealt with in those weeks that had passed. I remember the phone call to her clearly on the 30th as my reaction to her information was positive. When I asked her if the Caribbean was covered and she said yes I was very pleased and gave lots of “Oh greats” and “That’s fantastic”! If in fact like she says she said that it wasn’t covered then why oh why would I then tell my boyfriend that it was ok to use the mobile out there? When I gave out the positive reactions why did she not correct me when she had informed me wrong?

I am really absolutely disgusted that this information was given to me and then retracted. The lady I spoke to, when questioned by Vodafone wouldn’t exactly own up that she had made a mistake as she may have felt that she had lost Vodafone some income and may have been told off. She wouldn’t exactly own up and say, “Oh yeah, I did tell Miss Taylor it was ok” and then lose you the X amount of pounds that I’ve been billed and haven’t been billed yet. Plus when this was being investigated I was told that I would get a phone call within 48 hours to advise me of this situation which I never received. Instead I have had to chase this up 2 or 3 times myself.

Today I rang through to Vodafone again to see if I could make a payment arrangement as I can’t afford to pay the (now) £1500 plus in only a few months but it wasn’t agreed that I could do this, although I have to say that the 3 ladies I spoke to were very helpful morning. Again though they were meant to ring back but didn’t. I have become extremely upset and distracted by this situation and don’t feel that I can talk to anyone over the phone anymore as I become too upset to talk.

I have been very pleased with the service I have received from Vodafone up til now but will have to reconsider my contracts if we cannot reach some agreement in this dispute.

I would like to point out that –

I have never been in arrears before with any company that I have a financial agreement with or pay for services with.
I would never have willingly taken action that would have put me into debt.
I can’t afford to pay the bill so need a resolution.
I would like an audio copy of the phone call on the 30th October at 5.43pm please.

As you can see I have made numerous attempts to try to sort this out over the telephone. I do not want this hanging over me as this is causing me considerable stress and worry. Please contact me without delay with your answer.

Regards

Danielle

[*Danielle*]

Just to add, once again they havent got back to me after asking me my security questions. That was Friday afternoon. So much for getting back to me within 48 hours! I'm really fed up with them now.

[Stu-]

let me know if u have any joy with this? is not drop me a email and i'll have a look at your account see if we can get it sorted out.

Danielle, See if my old mate Arron can sort this out for ya
Drop him a PM on here or something

I guess from my post you were in that 1 out of 10, Good luck with it

[cj77]

I was misinformed about Vodafone passport therefore leading to a huge bill that I cant afford to pay. I would like a copy of the call that I made as I was told that all calls are recorded by law but I dont know if this is right.

Any advice please?
your calls shoudnt be recorded unless u asked them 2 do it

[*Danielle*]

let me know if u have any joy with this? is not drop me a email and i'll have a look at your account see if we can get it sorted out.

Hi, I cant find an email address for you. Do I just click on your profile?

[Stu-]

His E-Mail address is spartan73@googlemail.com
I'm sure he wont mind me posting this, If he does he'll text me and tell me off :D

[cj77]

Hi, I cant find an email address for you. Do I just click on your profile?
it should be there if not let me know an il giv u itok

[faza20]

In all honesty we haven't received an email with FIT135 in it, so I do apologise (seems to have been mis-routed). If you resend it, or PM me with a direct email address, will quite happily have a look for you.

[Gooser]

OK here goes.

They do record everything, trust me. They have a record of your call and by law would HAVE to keep it nice and safe for the next six years.

Forget speaking to the call centre guys because to be honest they won't have been trained in the REAL asspects of data protection. Write to them saying that under the data protection act you would like all the data they have on you specifically all of the conversations that you have had with their customer service team. Inclose a cheque for £10. This is the maximum that any data holder (in your case Vodafone) can charge for releasing the information. Inform them that they have 40 days to respond IN WRITING ONLY and make sure that you send it via special delivery.

If you don't hear from them within 40 days then report them to the information commisioner and he will spank them for you.

[FoneTec]

When you phone Vodafone, it does state that SOME calls are recorded ONLY for training purposes.

[bavlondon]

All calls are normally auto recorded with the way the phone system is set up in customer service call centres.

[spartan73]

actually mate i can honestly say not all calls are recodred... there is no law that states thay have to record calls and keep them for 6 years.... if that was so nearly every company that has a call centre is breaking it...

[Gooser]

There are laws that say that all data on a customer has to be kept safe for six years. This includes calls.

I garantee if you wrote to them wanting to see all the data they have they will have the call on record.

[spartan73]

yeh that only counts for "notes" that are put on the azccount after a call... there simply not recorded so a request for them is a wase of time

[Gooser]

yeh that only counts for "notes" that are put on the azccount after a call... there simply not recorded so a request for them is a wase of time

Trust me dude; they will have it on record.

[spartan73]

they don't lol, it would cost to much to tape, record and store every call.... i work for vodafone and can say i have about 4 call recorded a week... thats it... nothing more

[Gooser]

they don't lol, it would cost to much to tape, record and store every call.... i work for vodafone and can say i have about 4 call recorded a week... thats it... nothing more


Ok dude, there is no point in the two of us arguing over it.

If you wrote a letter as I said then you will get a solution to your problem.

[Stu-]

There are laws that say that all data on a customer has to be kept safe for six years. This includes calls.

I garantee if you wrote to them wanting to see all the data they have they will have the call on record.

Ok so you state that "They dont know all the ins and outs of Data Protection"
That statement could kind of be true, But they certainly let staff know of the down falls should they breech the DPA Rules!

If you can quote from the official DPA Document where it states that these items need to be "Kept safe for 6 years" Then I'll gladly agree with you, But I'm afraid thats just not practical. Where they going to store these "Recordings" for such an amount of time, Granted you have backups & Stuff, But in the event of a fire or a major DPA Breech, Whats going to happen then?~

Also as my friend Spartan has pointed out "Thats what the Memo's / Notes on customers accounts are for" This is a way of recording the information of the call and should the customer wish to view the memos on their account, They can request that from the company directly...

[Gooser]

Ok so you state that "They dont know all the ins and outs of Data Protection"
That statement could kind of be true, But they certainly let staff know of the down falls should they breech the DPA Rules!

If you can quote from the official DPA Document where it states that these items need to be "Kept safe for 6 years" Then I'll gladly agree with you, But I'm afraid thats just not practical. Where they going to store these "Recordings" for such an amount of time, Granted you have backups & Stuff, But in the event of a fire or a major DPA Breech, Whats going to happen then?~

Also as my friend Spartan has pointed out "Thats what the Memo's / Notes on customers accounts are for" This is a way of recording the information of the call and should the customer wish to view the memos on their account, They can request that from the company directly...


Guys go and see a solisitor and ask him/her how the statute of limitations applys here. There would be no point for a company to keep data that they don't want to keep after the six years.

Sorry to tell you guys but you have to be carefull with what you tell customers all the time, not just "about 4 times a week".

[Stu-]

Sorry to tell you guys but you have to be carefull with what you tell customers all the time, not just "about 4 times a week".

Why should they be, There only telling you what the company does...

Also who would be installed within such a large company to name each tape "Customer Smith on 1/1/07 etc..."

You could be right, But if the companies doing it this way, I'd be sure they are doing it right, Some companies cut corners, But I doubt the big mobile companies in the UK & The likes of NTL / BT etc would do the same

[Jethro]

I don't find the idea of 6 years backdated call's for all VF UK let alone VF Group plausible in the slightest. And no offence Gooser but its laughable.

I really don't think you understand the resources and infrastructure requirement's that would have to go into storing that much data for that period of time.

I mean consider that there are multiple million's of calls made to business customer services alone regardless of consumer added on top every month.

Let's say you record the call directly from switch for each channel (somehow!) at lowest bit-rate and sample rate possible for whatever codec chosen (MP3/OGG/WMA/WAV/APE etc.) your looking at least 1MB per call, if not in audio in logging and recording. And undeniably more than 1MB i'm just trying to illustrate how un-relastic the idea is.

That's at least 2 million MB's a month, that's getting on towards 2TB a month. 12 month's in a year gives 22/23 TB a year.
Times 6 years gives 138 TB.

Also bear in mind you'd need to have a hot standby so times by two (276). Then take in consideration it's not got 6 years at a time it's got 7 or perhaps more for resilience and ease of migration/maintinance as years go by.

Just trust that business's don't care that much about hearing people whine down a phone, at least not enough to employ a worldwide call recording system which would cost far too much to deploy let alone maintain.

[marlin026]

let me add some clairty for everyone here.

I work as head of training in a large UK based call centre.

As a matter of course we record calls at random, however there is a function to record 100% of all interactions (calls). We do not use this setting. The reason being there is just no way to store all that data.

Imagine we have 100 advisors working at any one time and the average calls lasts around 3-5 mins and each advisor can take approx 80 calls per day thats alot of data! Also because they are voice calls they are data hungry.

So we record a % of all interactions each day and use these to look at call quality and coaching. After which time we delete them as we see fit as there is no way on earth to store all of those for 6 years, as far as I am aware there is no such requirement under DPA. A customer can request any information voice or otherwise that we hold on them, notes etc. But if we dont have any voice data then there is no obligation to provide it. I think you will find that it is against the DPA to hold on to any data for any longer than required!

Data must be

fairly and lawfully processed;
processed for limited purposes;
adequate, relevant and not excessive;
accurate;
not kept longer than necessary;
processed in accordance with your rights;
kept secure;
not transferred abroad without adequate protection
;)

[Stu-]

let me add some clairty for everyone here.

I work as head of training in a large UK based call centre.

As a matter of course we record calls at random, however there is a function to record 100% of all interactions (calls). We do not use this setting. The reason being there is just no way to store all that data.

Imagine we have 100 advisors working at any one time and the average calls lasts around 3-5 mins and each advisor can take approx 80 calls per day thats alot of data! Also because they are voice calls they are data hungry.

So we record a % of all interactions each day and use these to look at call quality and coaching. After which time we delete them as we see fit as there is no way on earth to store all of those for 6 years, as far as I am aware there is no such requirement under DPA. A customer can request any information voice or otherwise that we hold on them, notes etc. But if we dont have any voice data then there is no obligation to provide it. I think you will find that it is against the DPA to hold on to any data for any longer than required!

Data must be

fairly and lawfully processed;
processed for limited purposes;
adequate, relevant and not excessive;
accurate;
not kept longer than necessary;
processed in accordance with your rights;
kept secure;
not transferred abroad without adequate protection
;)

That would be how I thought it would be marlin, I used to work for Vodafone and as you say there & I'm sure its generic across companies We record calls at random

I also dont think you can keep 6 years of recorded calls in a "Secure Area" Its impossible, Because that data can be sold on or whatever by an untrust worthy member of staff, Who the company may trust, But that staff member is breeching that trust.

Team Leaders / Managers have a set number of calls recorded, But they are usually used for progression of the staff member they have recorded