Slow 3G rollout

[MRGS1]

Does anyone at vodafone know how long after planning permission networks abandon the idea of building a 3G mast? Its been two and a half years since vodafone got planning permission to build a mast in my location but still nothing, bought a 3G handset for nothing! Orange use to say if they had not built it in a year then it wouldnt be built, and i wanted to try a 3G datacard for my laptop.

[DaveC]

AFAIK most of the networks are putting their main effort into upgrading existing masts. Once these are in place in a given area, new masts are built for fill in.
Plans for new masts are always 'fluid'. When GSM was being built I remember one area coming on line 30 months after it was planned, whilst over areas came live even before they were shown as planned on the coverage map.

I doubt that many Vodafone employees will even know when your mast will come on line. Have you tried asking at Vodafone?

[MRGS1]

AFAIK most of the networks are putting their main effort into upgrading existing masts. Once these are in place in a given area, new masts are built for fill in.
Plans for new masts are always 'fluid'. When GSM was being built I remember one area coming on line 30 months after it was planned, whilst over areas came live even before they were shown as planned on the coverage map.

I doubt that many Vodafone employees will even know when your mast will come on line. Have you tried asking at Vodafone? I think some areas of gloucestershire must be way down the list, Stroud and surrounding towns have such difficult terrain that most networks are putting up new ones instead of upgrading existing they say there in wrong place, orange and 3 were very quick to cover the area, but vodafone have permission for many masts for years perhaps they cant afford it.Think i read somewhere that southwest wouldnt get decent coverage for years.

[DaveC]

It's all a question of priorities and getting the best returns from a mast when it goes live.

There are whole swathes of the UK that will never have good 3g coverage. All the networks have declared as much. The frequency that 3g uses needs a lot more masts than 2g. The truth is they have not even finished rolling out 2g yet!

[DaveC]

Just looked at the map. Looks like the main road thro Stroud will be getting some coverage soon

[stickystickman]

I thought voda were rolling out pretty quickly. I guess they can only put up so many masts at one time. I assume it isn't just a matter of putting the mast up and switching on. I think they have loads of testing and connecting to the network etc. They must also only have so many trained technicians and support staff and of course a limited budget (even if the budget runs into £millions). I guess they'll work their way down the population centres eventually concentrating on the smaller towns where there is a demand and leave the quieter areas.

Anyway it could be worse. Look at how slowly Orange, O2 and T-mobile are rolling their networks out. I think O2 have just given up looking at their coverage map. OK, 3 have wide 3g coverage but also had issues with their customer service etc. I know voda ain't perfect but they're the best of the rest having fantastic 2g coverage all over the UK.

Just me 2p's worth. I'll get off my soap box now.

[MRGS1]

Just looked at the map. Looks like the main road thro Stroud will be getting some coverage soonHello that is the thrupp road about a mile and half from stroud town centre its only a row of houses on each side of the road signal wont reach town centre because stroud is all valleys hence the name 5 valleys.

[DaveC]

Networks do tend to put coverage onto motorways and A roads quickly. I suspect the one in question will be from an original mast.

I suspect you will have a wait to get 3g from Vodafone. They are all trying to claw back some income to put against the costs and big cities / towns give the best return

[MRGS1]

It's all a question of priorities and getting the best returns from a mast when it goes live.

There are whole swathes of the UK that will never have good 3g coverage. All the networks have declared as much. The frequency that 3g uses needs a lot more masts than 2g. The truth is they have not even finished rolling out 2g yet!True but the problem is if 3G does'nt cover the same area as 2G then it is an inferior technology and remember 2G will go in a number of years and you wont have it has a fallback on your phone laptop etc. OFCOM will sell those frequencies off thats why i thought orange testing UMTS at GSM900 was pointless because you wont have that frequency for ever.

[MRGS1]

Networks do tend to put coverage onto motorways and A roads quickly. I suspect the one in question will be from an original mast.

I suspect you will have a wait to get 3g from Vodafone. They are all trying to claw back some income to put against the costs and big cities / towns give the best returnIt's a new 12 meter high mast its been erected for about 4 months now, about big towns getting it first Cirencester in gloucestershire about half population of stroud 25000/30000 has it, think it could be something to do with stroud being a difficult area to cover because of terrain we have loads of TV relays because of valleys.

[DaveC]

True but the problem is if 3G does'nt cover the same area as 2G then it is an inferior technology and remember 2G will go in a number of years and you wont have it has a fallback on your phone laptop etc. OFCOM will sell those frequencies off thats why i thought orange testing UMTS at GSM900 was pointless because you wont have that frequency for ever.

The networks are trying to persuade the powers that be to leave some of the 1800mhz frequencies free in the long term for 3g coverage.

I suspect we will go 3g with Edge in areas where it is too expensive or difficult to cover at 2100.

[MRGS1]

The networks are trying to persuade the powers that be to leave some of the 1800mhz frequencies free in the long term for 3g coverage.

I suspect we will go 3g with Edge in areas where it is too expensive or difficult to cover at 2100.1800 will work ok in built up areas but more rural areas will suffer because they wont place masts close enough together to make a network like it is now it won't be cost effective,don't know what it's like in liverpool but in the cotswolds a lot of masts are placed too far away from areas they are trying to cover for planning and health fears so by the time signal gets to the centre of a small market town it's all but lost where i live mast's are two and half mile's away with the narrow street it is lost orange and T mobile are useless on 1800 ,O2 and vodafone on 900 get through a little better. Found out about why that mast was not built farmer has refused them to build' too much hassle from villagers in the area.

[DaveC]

Not sure of the Cotswolds - Nearest I ever get is Hereford and Bristol. However, in some of the more rural parts of Yorkshire I have often found its the 1800 networks that I pick up. I'm working at Fountains Abbey in two weeks and the only signal is T-Mobile!

[bernifresh]

@ Stickyman

Where I live in East Kent, Orange have not only been upgrading 2g masts to 3g but have also built new 3g masts. In some cases there are 2g/3g masts only a few hundred metres apart. Even microcell cites have been or are being upgraded.

O2 and T-Mobile are none existant 3g wise and Voda is very patchy and they haven't built any new sites since their 3g launch in my area.

Although Orange aint what they were, when I see the network coverage and capacity been improved constantly then I don't mind as much.

[MRGS1]

Not sure of the Cotswolds - Nearest I ever get is Hereford and Bristol. However, in some of the more rural parts of Yorkshire I have often found its the 1800 networks that I pick up. I'm working at Fountains Abbey in two weeks and the only signal is T-Mobile!There seems still to be quite a few areas where you can only get one network do'nt know if the people have a case with EEC over not having freedom of choice no competition, to pick what communications package they like but have to go with that provider in that area and that operator having an unfair advantage, dont know how the license for mobile networks was drawn up?

[DaveC]

There seems still to be quite a few areas where you can only get one network do'nt know if the people have a case with EEC over not having freedom of choice no competition, to pick what communications package they like but have to go with that provider in that area and that operator having an unfair advantage, dont know how the license for mobile networks was drawn up?

The original licences for GSM set targets on the %age of the population to be covered by certain dates, not land mass. All networks have met those targets.

There are plenty of places in the UK which have no coverage at all. In August I shall be at the Rydale Folk museum, there is no coverage from any network in the village in which it is situated. Same goes for places in Wales.

The national parks often contain sizable communities but mast building is restricted. These are the places that people go walking and climbing and could do with an emergency phone. I've lost count of the time I've been on a walk and out of coverage, and I carry a phone that roams on all 4 main networks.

If this is the case with 2g (both 900 & 1800) some 12 or more years down the line - 3g coverage will be far more difficult. The answer will lie in some other technology, maybe sat. roaming when out of coverage.

[stickystickman]

Not sure of the Cotswolds - Nearest I ever get is Hereford and Bristol. However, in some of the more rural parts of Yorkshire I have often found its the 1800 networks that I pick up. I'm working at Fountains Abbey in two weeks and the only signal is T-Mobile!


Interesting. I live just down the road from there and I have no probs with coverage on Voda. Maybe your phone is a little temperamental. I've done a network search in the valley out of the way and get the big 4 networks everytime and often get 3 also! It is a dodgy area for signals generally as you will often lose signal if you go in a building (esp stone). Kirby Malzeard (couple miles away from fountains abbey) is renowned locally for having p**s poor reception and virtually all networks do struggle up there. I can only find O2 to work.

In other words all networks have there good and bad spots, even only metres or miles from each other. Check your coverage where you need to use it and use the relevant network. I travel the north of england and wales a lot and find voda to be most widespread. Maybe other parts of the uk differ? Regarding tmobile in North Yorkshire, I would suggest you view their coverage in Pateley Bridge area in the Yorkshire Dales. You'll find it to be completely lacking. Even 3 now how cover there.

We could go on about this all night.

[DaveC]

Interesting. I live just down the road from there and I have no probs with coverage on Voda. Maybe your phone is a little temperamental. .

Nope there were 30 of us. Only the people on T-Mobile / Virgin could get a signal.

[DaveC]

Interesting. In other words all networks have there good and bad spots, even only metres or miles from each other. Check your coverage where you need to use it and use the relevant network. .

We could go on about this all night.

Yep, I'm always in out of the way places, that's why I carry a phone that can work on any GSM network

[MRGS1]

Yep, I'm always in out of the way places, that's why I carry a phone that can work on any GSM networkWhat i don't understand if orange tried UMTS at 900mhz and so say it worked, why dont O2 and vodafone use it for the time being to roll out service's quicker? It can only be a case of changing a few PCB's at the mast, main servers etc don't need to changed?

[Daddycool]

What i don't understand if orange tried UMTS at 900mhz and so say it worked, why dont O2 and vodafone use it for the time being to roll out service's quicker? It can only be a case of changing a few PCB's at the mast, main servers etc don't need to changed?
Yes, that's a good idea, spend 6 billion on a 2 ranges of UMTS frequencies then use 900 MHz which whould totaly mess with your 2.5G network. Er, I wonder why they don't do that. Truth is, UMTS 900 is a possibility and is under development but its a bit more than a few PCB's. LOL OFCOM might have a few words to say aswell!!

[MRGS1]

Yes, that's a good idea, spend 6 billion on a 2 ranges of UMTS frequencies then use 900 MHz which whould totaly mess with your 2.5G network. Er, I wonder why they don't do that. Truth is, UMTS 900 is a possibility and is under development but its a bit more than a few PCB's. LOL OFCOM might have a few words to say aswell!!Yes it is stupid but unless someone grabs the bull by the horns a lot of rural towns, villages, areas etc will loose out because 3G will not cover well enough, masts will not be allowed because there are health/ planning concerns so unless they keep GSM then alot of people will lose out i read a report by my local MP a network had relplied to him saying for 3G to be successfull you need a mast every 800 meters. can you see that in rural wales, cornwall, herefordshire gloucestershire?

[Daddycool]

Yes it is stupid but unless someone grabs the bull by the horns a lot of rural towns, villages, areas etc will loose out because 3G will not cover well enough, masts will not be allowed because there are health/ planning concerns so unless they keep GSM then alot of people will lose out i read a report by my local MP a network had relplied to him saying for 3G to be successfull you need a mast every 800 meters. can you see that in rural wales, cornwall, herefordshire gloucestershire?
That figure of 800 meters I think you'll find would be correct in built up areas where the high demand and request for more bandwidth would make the cells coverage shrink (because of the breathing principle) but the demand in the places you mention would not be that high and so the range would be a lot more. Unless of course Mr sheepy and his pals have bought themselves data cards and are playing quake online with their laptops! LOL :laugh:

[Rob_Online_UK]

Orange have beaten voda here with their 3G Coverage.
Where I live Orange is the only 3G Network

[MRGS1]

That figure of 800 meters I think you'll find would be correct in built up areas where the high demand and request for more bandwidth would make the cells coverage shrink (because of the breathing principle) but the demand in the places you mention would not be that high and so the range would be a lot more. Unless of course Mr sheepy and his pals have bought themselves data cards and are playing quake online with their laptops! LOL :laugh:Look how much vodafone lost today more than all uk mobile networks are valued at! How on earth do they afford 3G rollout with those losses? Hard to find any positives for 3G videocalls seem to be a gimmick, mobile TV well, ok faster downloads but it looks like taking years to sort out what frequencies will be used for problem areas so 2G/3G phones will have to keep on being made it just seems a backward step,i use my phone as my home phone but suspect when 3G comes will lose all network coverage in my area 3G signal wont travel two and half miles from nearest mast and they cant build any because of AONB.

[Daddycool]

Look how much vodafone lost today more than all uk mobile networks are valued at! How on earth do they afford 3G rollout with those losses? Hard to find any positives for 3G videocalls seem to be a gimmick, mobile TV well, ok faster downloads but it looks like taking years to sort out what frequencies will be used for problem areas so 2G/3G phones will have to keep on being made it just seems a backward step,i use my phone as my home phone but suspect when 3G comes will lose all network coverage in my area 3G signal wont travel two and half miles from nearest mast and they cant build any because of AONB.
Here is a positive for you. I work away from home which my 3 young children find difficult. My youngest is just over one so talking on the phone doesn't have a great difference BUT "seeing" their daddy while they talk to him makes a huge difference. Not much use to you but to me a great use!! 3G is barely 2 years old, can you remember 20 years ago when GSM was being rolled out? We didn't have Forums to moan about the service or anything to compare it to, infact it took nearly a decade before it became a "can't do without" tool, give it chance. As for using your mobile as a home phone, I wouldn't worry too much, GSM is not going to be turned off any time soon!! Losing money is different subject so I won't answer that question here.

[Daddycool]

Orange have beaten voda here with their 3G Coverage.
Where I live Orange is the only 3G Network
Where's "here"?
Orange I belive has gone for a scattered rollout where Vodafone has tried to concentrate service in the big area's first and them move out. This is with a view to better QoS rather than then the lucky few but don't move technique.

[MRGS1]

Where's "here"?
Orange I belive has gone for a scattered rollout where Vodafone has tried to concentrate service in the big area's first and them move out. This is with a view to better QoS rather than then the lucky few but don't move technique.I was reading a national newspaper today and it says vodafone and other networks are now looking to decommission a lot of masts mostly rural that do not make a profit and also try and haggle cheaper rent from landowners,3G and the future of telecoms looks bright! Good job i invested in hundreds of pounds of equipment to recieve 3g on my laptop and N70 after customers services told me 3G would be in my area in 6 months, still nothing!now we have a good chance of getting nothing i suspect there are only a handful of vodafone users where i live so it will not be profitable nor the mast up the road which only covers about 150 homes, you say 2G will be around for a long time i expect 10 more years at most, the days of making a call anywhere will go with only populated areas covered then gaps til you reach the next town god knows if your car breaks down or you need assistance .

[MRGS1]

Just looked at the map. Looks like the main road thro Stroud will be getting some coverage soonTake a look at the map now it's now showing no coverage for stroud and you still think they have'nt made a muck up of 3G roll out in stroud!

[DaveC]

Take a look at the map now it's now showing no coverage for stroud and you still think they have'nt made a muck up of 3G roll out in stroud!

Most likely a group of NIMBY's have protested - so planning has been put back.

[MRGS1]

Most likely a group of NIMBY's have protested - so planning has been put back.Not NIMBYS the mast was built but 3G never turned on strange? perhaps rollout is being delayed again problem is planning permission run out dont think they will so lucky next time around people dont want masts