Orange 3G, on pay as you go

[roman700]

Hi

Happy to see Orange launch their 3G mobile phone service, but does anyone know when Pay as you go will be launched.

Thanks.

[simax]

Hopefully never.

[99901]

Hopefully never.


very constructive

in regards to the question. I dont think its a priority at present

later 2005

[simax]

Sorry. I was a bit abrupt, wasn't I? :o

Personally, I hate Pay as you Go (both on a personal level and on a professional level as I sell mobiles).

People I know who have PAYG always ask me to phone them as they have no credit (They have the cash to buy credit, but won't cos they know I'll pay for the call), and the PAYG people who think they're entitled to a massive cheap deal, when they're gonna spend £5/month or less. Or better still, the people who buy PAYG, then whinge that it's so expensive, and blame the retailer (even though they told them that Pay Monthly would save them £40 a month).

Go figure.

Simon

[99901]

I agree with the comments

[solo12002]

Orange pay as you I hear will be Jan for 3G. Im thinking of switching over to Orange 3g from O2, 400 mins day and 400 evening, question I have is what time is day is it 7 to 7pm which means the free mins dont click in to 8pm, am I right?

[ColinR]

I would have thought that January is unlikely. Orange haven't started pushed the contract 3G via advertising yet.

Plus there's the usual lag between Contract versions and the PAYG versions of handsets.

[Coltch]

While it would be nice to see PAYG in January I think it will be alot later in the year.

As for the previous comment about PAYG, I personally prefer the flexibility it offers as I don't like being tied down to a 12 month contract.

[markish99]

I hope that Orange do not bring out PAYG on 3G based on their previous PAYG efforts on 2G. I dont know if anyone remembers (I do as I was an overcharged Orange contract customer at the time), but Orange virtually gave away handsets on PAYG before one christmas not long after launch of the PAYG service, with cheap tariffs and shed loads of texts free every day for a long period. The upshot was that the network got clogged up with these snotty schoolkid users and texts took an age to be delivered.....24 hours in some cases and it was nearly impossible to get a line due to network congestion. It took them a good few months to sort it out, by which time it was actually cheaper to be on PAYG rather than contract. I cancelled mine, and changed networks. If they do the same again, I will go back to Three. Maybe I should anyway bearing in mind they are owned by the French and are sending a load of UK jobs off to Bangalore in order to raise cash to keep the people working at France Telecom in jobs. :mad:

[rossonthenet]

but Orange virtually gave away handsets on PAYG before one christmas not long after launch of the PAYG service, with cheap tariffs and shed loads of texts free every day for a long period. The upshot was that the network got clogged up with these snotty schoolkid users and texts took an age to be delivered.....

Well excuse me for being a "snotty schoolkid user".
Don't blame the people who buy the phones. Blame the network.

[jman]

"question I have is what time is day is it 7 to 7pm which means the free mins dont click in to 8pm, am I right?"

Yes you are, the evening mins start at 8pm and stop at 12am.

[markish99]

Apologies for offence caused rossonthenet, unfortunately low margin users hogged all the bandwith effectively whilst I was still paying top dollar. Understand why I was upset? Wouldnt you be if business calls and texts were being dropped because a bunch of kids were texting 'I love you' and 'wanna meet round the back of the bikesheds for a fag?' to each other? Kids should be made to use third world networks like three, not networks geared to business.

[DaveC]

Kids should be made to use third world networks like three, not networks geared to business.

Shucks - there's me thinking that was T-Mobile :D

[Gunner]

Kids should be made to use third world networks like three, not networks geared to business.
Orange is only the largest because it's geared towards everyone. Surely Vodafone is more 'geared to business' than Orange ever has been. I hear what you're saying though, but I don't think you need worry - back then mobile phones were building to the boom, these days even Three's give-aways have needed time to take hold.

[DaveC]

Ah ---- Take me back to the days when I frequently got Network Busy on Orange :rolleyes:

[russell]

i seem to remember with 2g phones that they were all set a network priority number by the network provider(that would kick others off their calls if cell was full and person trying to connect had a higher priority). Surely if this is the case, it would be possible for networks to give priority to business users calls, who would pay a higher rate for this.

I would be in favour of this and would be prepared to pay 50% more for the service. In the same vein i think the government should double the tax on petrol to keep the roads clear for serious road users.

[Adam]

I always thought that 999/112 calls got priority of all calls. Then business customers/contracts, then your average contract, then pay as you go.

[Gunner]

"In the same vein i think the government should double the tax on petrol to keep the roads clear for serious road users."

For car drivers maybe, but certainly not for the emergency services, haulage and public transport! Edit: Infact, everyone should have the right to use a car, not just those who are considerably more wealthy. The infrastructure needs to grow to meet demands.

I'm not sure I agree with your other elitist comments either tbh... while I'm all for business users having a superior service, I think the bare bones of the network should be reliable for EVERYONE.

[russell]

My thoughts exactly... the bare bones of the network should be available to all, but with priority of calls and texts given to the users who spend more money with the network, either as business users or as high volume domestic callers. Surely it makes sense for the networks to keep their core(best) customers happy, then allow low budget users to fill in any gaps left on the network when there is capacity.

[Gunner]

It makes business sense, yes. But what about consumers? What about elder people or people who use their phones for emergencies - not very nice for them to have their calls dropped or to get "Network Busy". As far as calls and texts go, UMTS should ensure there is more than enough capacity for everyone, provided networks have their backends sorted.

Videocalling and data transfer is a different matter mind... it wouldn't hurt to prioritise business/high volume data customers over those just downloading funny videos once in a while. I just think that there's no reason why voice calls should be compromised for some users.

Mhmm. I'd love to have 'priority'. But then at the same time I'm really against enforcing the digital divide.

[russell]

you may have your priority wihout knowing it. I read on other threads about three mobile, that the z1010 was supplied pre programmed with a higher priority than other phones. I don't know if there is any truth in this!

[markish99]

Surely it makes sense for the networks to keep their core(best) customers happy, then allow low budget users to fill in any gaps left on the network when there is capacity.

Which is exactly what Orange did NOT do back in Dec 2000 though March(ish) 2001. Thats when I walked thanks to the playground brigade. They crippled what was then the most competent network, all because they wanted to up their market share for statistical purposes and to keep shareholders happy.

To play devils advocate, I agree in principle with Russ. On the 'divide' side of things, that's life. Cars, transport in general (ie. Flight - Club class or cattle class). The joys of a capitalist society. If people do not like it, move to China. Mind you, that society is probably more elitist now than ours.

[User Has Gone]

Hi Guys,

Been reading through this thread. I work for Orange's Technical department and can maybe shed light on some of the things... Some numbers do still have priority. If you're a standard joe bloggs off the street you'll be the same as anyone else, PAYG or contract. Large volume corporate customers (and it has to a fairly large co, or spending a significant amount of cash) can have a higher priority, but say there's a business park where they all congregate, Orange will try and install a mast near to them to fill their needs. Emergency service users, e.g Police, Ambulance etc.. if their phones were supplied direct from Orange as in a bulk supply specifically put to tender for an Operator to come up with a deal there will of been conditions in the tender, one of those is to meet the needs of the emergency service, i.e let calls through, their numbers are given a higher priority. You would maybe notice if you've ever been in a large accident, the emergency services will all be able to use their phones and you'll be getting "network busy". Not that matters much to them now anyway as Airwave (o2) are supplying a new fancy network just for the emergency services.

As far as a network being clogged up from texts and not letting, for exapmle, a call through thats falacy. An emergency call does not always go through on your network, the handset picks the strongest signal from what it can see, that could be another operator.. thats also the reason you can make an emergency call without the SIM in your handset. Anyway texts and calls are different, all a text is is a bit of signalling, a call is specific time allocated on the networks RF channel. But if you do experience constant "busy" messages let Orange know, I spend a lot of time expading traffic capacity, it is something thats looked at on a regular basis. You'll be helping Orange gain revenue from the expanded traffic capacity and improving the service to yourself!

As abs0lutely correctly mentioned now UMTS is about theres plenty of capacity for all your text messages to go through, although bear this in mind, UMTS cells shrink as more users start taking the bandwidth, so you may get blinding speedy downloads at one point then the next struggle to keep your connection up! So the nearer you are to a WBTS the better!

G.

I knew there was somthing else I wanted to put down! PAYG makes up nealry 65% of most networks customer base, it makes sense to have PAYG! Its revenue! As soon as the cost of data comes down on contract and more people take up 3g expect to see PAYG.

[Gunner]

Great post - you have no idea how much I want you on my MSN! :P

I don't suppose you can shed any light on what the attitude at Orange is towards data pricing? I know it's not really your area, but over in the states they can pick up unlimited GPRS for about $20 a month. Orange's data rates are already competitive for the UK, but I wish they'd go lower.

I can't say I've ever had Network Busy on Orange, but don't get me started on the 2G coverage down here :(

[markish99]

As far as a network being clogged up from texts and not letting, for exapmle, a call through thats falacy.
I understand that, but I was referring to a particular period when they virtually gave away the handsets with packets of cornflakes (At the time, I wish they'd stuck to spokey dokeys or whatever). They also gave away x amount of free texts every day to PAYG phones, whilst still not extending the same courtesy to contract customers. This obviously meant the PAYG phones flew off the shelves even quicker and compounded the problem. The point I made was that I was in a contract at the time and paying top dollar, after paying top dollar for a V3688 direct from Orange. The upshot of their 'giving' away these PAYG handsets was that text messages in some cases took up to 24 hours to be delivered or just kept getting lost - which is something that used to happen quite a bit in the darker ages and understandable with the volume sent. You give someone a free allocation every day instead of their having to pay for it, they're gonna use it! I didnt get the same luxury and I was paying considerably more in contract. Also, if you wanted to try to make a call around the same time as the local schools lunchtime, you could forget it. You either got network busy or the signal dropped off the face of the earth. I know that this is a completely different proposition under UMTS, but all you contract users consider what happened then. The comments I made did say based on Oranges previous PAYG roll out. How would you feel if you were an Orange UMTS contract holder and locked in and then they start offering loads of free incentives to PAYG UMTS? I'd be pretty pis*ed as I was back with 2g. Also, you say that the majority of Oranges customer base (65%) is PAYG. I bet the proportion of profit drops like a brick way below that 65%. PAYG users are kids and low users which equals low revenue.

Also, on one of my other points, how do you feel about your company's decision to export 1500 technical jobs to Bangalore to save bucks to prop up the smug and overpaid and underworked French operatives at France Telecom?

[arvin]

Also, on one of my other points, how do you feel about your company's decision to export 1500 technical jobs to Bangalore to save bucks to prop up the smug and overpaid and underworked French operatives at France Telecom?

thats unfair to ask him/her that.
were not talking to the corporate big cats,yet!
they could be just a regular person who may be in fear themselves about there job so its best to leave it out.

[markish99]

Point taken, personally, I think it's disgusting. In my opinion, it's another case of a French parent company milking a British one, to prop themselves up and keep them in a lifestyle to which they've become accustomed to. This seems to happen in many industries from what I have read. The power industry is another......further reading is advised.

I think things like this should be discussed, otherwise people are ignorant to the facts. Based on the facts, people can make an informed decision, I would like to think my previous post highlighted a problem and as such, had I been aware of the fact at the point I was signing on the dotted line, I would have ripped the contract up and posted it in the wastepaper basket and left all my phones with three......

[User Has Gone]

abs0lutely & markish99,

First the data pricing, I really don't know how it Orange willplay their cards with regards to data pricing, it may well depend on what the other operators do, it far too early at the moment to say what might happen they've got gain a decent enough customer base first and see how they all use their phones. The US is such a difficult comparrison. For example, their home cable/dsl lines.. they think a 6Mbit onnection at home is normal! In way the states are so far behind but so far ahead. It'll be a little while i expect before the pricing changes.. but you never know!

This kinda encompases you both, if you have poor coverage on 2g or you're regularly suffering poor call quality then use customer services, ask them if they can have an operations engineer come out to the area, let them know how much you spend a month on Orange services and calls, everyone should be important even if it doesn't feel like it sometimes. You only need to come to a forum such as this, read a few bad experiences from other users and a new customer who may have chosen Orange picks 3 (god forbid).

Markish99, I understand where you're coming from. I'd be royally pissed off if I thought I'd missed the best offer only because I'd gone into the shop a week earlier, but sleep sound at the moment, I don't see PAYG UMTS for a while yet, and even when it does turn up I don't think the outset will be cheap. The handsets at the moment are new and expensive, the operators want to make some money back from the billions they've had to invest to get to this point. Contracts are the way to this, big corporate customers, and like most people on here, the ones that want the technology yesterday, myself included, we head out on day 1 and sign up, the operators then have to change the incentive to bring more people in, a pain to those who maybe went early, but I suppose thats the price you pay. Its the same everywhere... I wanted to upgrade my Sky to Sky+, ive been a customer for more than 12 months but the cheapest I can get it is £149 for the box and £60 install = £209!!! Whereas if you're a new customer is only £99 for everything?! Where is the sense? As far as the job outsourcing... my department was one that went through change, some of my friends lost their jobs, but decisions are made from above, and profit with minimum expenditure is the moto for most multi-national companies nowadays.

G.

[markish99]

At the point I was shafted by Orange, I was not an early adopter, 2g had been mainstream for over 5 years. It was an attempt to boost market share, massage figures, and increase share price, regardless of profit margins. They stuffed their existing contract users in favour of PAYG.

I agree on part of your last statement, but the driving force behind the outsourcing was the cash crisis at France Telecom, IMO caused by lazy, heavily subsidised French workers. The financial reports all pointed back to the parent company's cash problems.....I doubt the scenario would have ocurred if Orange was still owned by Hutchison.

Before people say about Three being owned by Hutchison Whampoa, that has been set up completely differently and is running a completely different model....as you pointed out, billions spent on licences requires mega-low overheads. Orange, at it's outset in '94 was a completely different issue.

I think your loyalty to Orange may be slightly misplaced, read on.....

The one question is, and it is a biggun:
How many France Telecom jobs have gone to Bangalore? ZERO.
Enough said......

[User Has Gone]

I don't think my loyalty is misplaced, nor do I want to get into a tit for tat match of whos right and whos wrong. I don't make the decisions, some dude in France and a big part of the French government makes the calls. I enjoy my job immensley, and enjoy working for le Orange SA. So lets use this scenario: You are CEO of company XYZ, you're needing to improve your image, alleviate debt, lower losses, improve productivity, change the old "in with the woodwork" image you have... Your advisers inform you of company ABC, its got a great image, friendly, outgoing, the people like it, its making money and best of all some company called Skodaphone has bought it, and another government doesn't want them having two licences. They're needing to sell it off. Now... can you tell me how that wouldn't make good business sense to buy company ABC? Maybe your beef is with the French, maybe everyone on T-Mobile and mmo2 doesnt like them because they're German, I don't know.

With regards to your last comment, here's a piece published in the register January 2004, I've highlighted a bit of interest:

France Telecom is to shed 7% of its global workforce as part of its restructuring plans, helping the French government to kick-start its stalled privatization program. The carrier remains some way behind its European rivals in efficiency terms but its management team continues to make progress.

The carrier is to lose 14,500 jobs during 2004, but insists the cuts will come about through early retirement and reassignment to other branches of the state civil service, rather than lay-offs. The cuts would move the operator close to its goal of cutting 22,000 French employees between 2003 and 2005

At the end of 2003, France Telecom employed approximately 216,000 people (126,000 in France and 90,000 abroad). It expects this figure to shrink to about 202,500 by the end of this year.

Union representatives said they were concerned about the effects of the job losses. "It's going to lead to chaos in our services, and we're going to lose skills," said Jacques Lemercier, head of the communications workers' arm of the Force Ouvriere union.

The cuts are part of France Telecom's attempts to gain operating efficiency, as the French government looks to restart its stalled privatization program. The French government's 56% stake in the company, which has a market capitalization of E56 billion, is by far the most valuable of the government's liquid holdings.

By law, the French government's stake must remain above 50%, but a new law that took effect this month removed the government's obligation to maintain a controlling stake in the one-time national telephone monopoly.

It is widely expected that the French government will sell a significant part of its holding in coming months. Unfortunately, the French operator still has some way to go before it can match the operating efficiency of some of its European competitors. In 2002, France Telecom was nearing collapse after a spending spree left it facing a huge debt pile of E68 billion.

However, a combination of new management, a highly controversial cash injection of E9 billion by the French government, and a restructuring program, has helped put the carrier on the road to recovery. France Telecom is currently saddled with a debt burden totaling E49 billion.

Source: ComputerWire/Datamonitor

Now, my original post was to try and offer some information about why the network maybe does the things it does, and appease you with regards to PAYG UMTS. Unless you're going to campaign on behalf of every individual thats employed by a company that decides to outsource should these posts not try and stick to the information that people are trying to find out?

[markish99]

Touche :p , point taken, I agree that I have been a little caustic, but I think we need to agree to disagree, the piece you quoted had one glaring area..

"The carrier (France Telecom) is to lose 14,500 jobs during 2004, but insists the cuts will come about through early retirement and reassignment to other branches of the state civil service, rather than lay-offs."

You can bet your bottom dollar almost none of the re-assignments etc will be in France.

If I am not mistaken, your colleagues at Orange UK 'lost their jobs' i.e. layoffs. That isnt happening in France where the problem is, but in a company where there isnt a problem. My point is they are stuffing the Brits to appease the French. They should have extended the same courtesy to your colleagues, but then again, your colleagues are not French and their attitudes to the British workforce is disgusting and I am surprised we stand for it time and time again.....after all, I am sticking up for you guys. So, to recap, they are using the cash by sending your jobs to Bangalore to be able to avoid making French staff redundant in a company that has absolutely nothing to do with your company!

The French government should have allowed full privatisation of France Telecom years ago, like our government did with BT years ago. The reason they didnt? Like their power companies, they retain the monopoly, maintain profits, wait for all of the other monopolies in Europe to be privatised, become fragmented and then they pounce. i.e. - Seeboard (Electricity) - now French owned, owned nonetheless by EDF - another French monopoly (what do you think the spending spree mentioned in your quote was?), and so the game continues. If France Telecom had been privatised when it should, this scenario we are experiencing now with Orange would be unthinkable. I think the failure of the French government to privatise flouts EU legislation, which they are normally more than willing to batter us with when it suits them.

Apologies if I have offended anyone, apologies for any inaccuracies, but it really annoys me. That is my final word on it. I wish you every success and wish for your job security.

[Gunner]

"If I am not mistaken, your colleagues at Orange UK 'lost their jobs' i.e. layoffs."

I believe the actual course of action taking place is to stop hiring. The churn will sort the numbers out pretty quickly.

I am, however, totally against France Telecoms ownership of Orange, and totally against fracturing their excellent (in my experience) UK customer services and taking on agency staff in India.

3g-glasgow - thanks, I'll give Orange a call when I get time about coverage.

[mobieg]

i have had network busy on an early nokia 5.1 or something, when orange was a baby.